Zasto NE cijepiti dijete???

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Luna Rocco prvotno napisa

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silvy prvotno napisa

osim toga svi smo mi cjepljeni pa smo jos zivi i zdravi...

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Na žalost, glas onih koji nisu više ne možemo čuti.

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ma potpunosi u pravu...ne osporavam tvoje misljenje...veca sam rekla da je je cjepljenje mac sa dvije ostrice pa koju izaberes...ja sam samo navela razloge sto sam odabrala cjepljenje...a iskreno svaki put kad to radimo ja strepim od straha i buducnosti...nemam dovoljno hrabrosti reci e sad necu vise, jer se bojim sta ako dijete dobije tu bolest, ja je mogla sprjeciti a nisam??? sve su to pitanja koja se vrte meni i muzu po glavi...prije nego smo je cjepili citali smo ove sve topic i vodili diskusiju i na kraju odabrali cjepljenje...zasto???...kao prvo procitala sam jedan post gdje majka nije cjepila curicu pa je mala dobila tu bolest, ne znam sad koja je bolest bila i koje to napisao(a mrsko mi je sada traziti)... a kao drugo smo se drzali onog:milijuni dijece se cijepe pa neka i moje...osim toga malu cu morati dati u vrtic a eto bez cjepljenja ne ide...

mislim glupo je o ovoj temi raspravljati jer nema pravog odgovora...svaka strana nosi rizik!!!

Slažem se da je svatko dobio jedan ili dva ili tri.. mala života na skrb dok ne budu dovoljno veliki da se brinu o sebi, ali nismo vlasnici tih malih života. Danas je teško donositi odluke i u isto vrijeme vagati plusove i minuse uz činjenicu da upravo ta odluka može imati pozitivne ili negativne posljedice.
Govorite da su cjepiva štetna zbog žive, nuspojava, formaldehida, uglavnom postupaka kojima uopće nastaje. Naravno da jesu kada se tako gleda. Ali s druge strane, koliko ste do sada pojele žive do svojih 25-30 g u hrani, koliko ste popile klora, koliko su vas izračili mobiteli, koliko ste udahnuli štetnih tvari u zraku, koliko ste se puta prepekli na suncu ili sl. Poanta "šta su govorile naše bake" i sada je u tome, da je od tada prošlo kojih 70-tak godina, a naša civilizacija napreduje, uz izgleda više minusa nego pluseva, te se vraćanje nekim starim provjerenim stvarima čini bolja alternativa za sve nas. Otkrićem penicilina i cjepiva protiv velikih boginja desila se prekretnica čovječanstva - više se nije moralo umirati od zaraznih bolesti. Jedino cjepivo čija kampanja je prekinuta su upravo velike boginje zbog činjenice da ih na svijetu više nema (osim u labosima), a ostalim cijepljenjima se upravo pokušava smanjiti broj slučajeva bolesti na minimum. Naravno da se neke bolesti javljaju u malom broju - u Rh broj oboljelih od morbila ili ospica je 5-6 oboljelih/godina, ali razlog je imuniziranje pučanstava tj. stvara se otpornost nacije(ne želim zamarati statističkim nazivima), te ukoliko si cijepljen, ne samo da štitiš sebe, već štitiš i onaj dio koji iz nekog razloga nije (još) procijepljen, ZATO necijepljena djeca rijetko kada obole, jer je ukupan broj cijepljenih veći nego necijepljenih.
Luna Rocco a tko kaže da nema više kuge?I baš me zanima koji su to izvori za ove tvrdnje. Pretražite PubMed ili statistike WHO ili Andrije Štampara. Mislim da ovdje nismo kompetentni razglabati o zaraznim bolestima i o nuspojavama ili kontraindikacijama cijepljenja, već samo reći ja nisam cijepila svoje dijete zbog toga i toga ili jesam zbog toga i toga. I biti spreman na posljedice svoje odluke.

http://www.who.int/healthinfo/statis.../en/index.html - evo statistike za polio

Jazzmama, koja kampanja je gdje pokrenuta ili prekinuta ti ovisi dobrim dijelom i o tome gdje zivis. Sta se kome servira ovisi i o tome kojeg doktora ili doktoricu tko posjecuje.
Sandra je, cini mi se spomenula, tbc. Kod nas u Hr se jos uvijek istice vaznost tog cjepiva, bebe se besezira valjda jos u rodilistu. ( nisam sigurna) A eto tu u Austriji, u prakticki susjednoj zemlji, to cjepivo je vec godinama povuceno iz prodaje i toplo ga se preporucuje izbjegavati jer je, u najmanju ruku!, neefektivno. (o stetnim posljedicama se nagadja)

U Becu je situacija prilicno jednostavna: svaki doktor svoju pricu prica. Konkretno, nasa djecja doktorica nas najvise plasi ospicama. Znam pouzdano da ima doktora koji uopce ne pridaju vaznost MMR (MoPaRu) cjepivu, iako je u redovnom programu cijepljenja.
Itd.itd.itd.
Vidim da sada u Hr postaje popularan Priorix, cjepivo koje kod nas vazi za prilicno kontroverzno. S druge strane, ni domaca verzija nije mila majka.
Imala sam negdje podatke tj. procjene koliko je dugotrajna zastita koju pruzaju cjepiva. I rezultati su stvarno porazavajuci.
Ako nekoga zanima, potrazim ih veceras.
Ako se kaze da vec nakon godinu dana npr. MoPaRu za preko 16 posto djece ne pruza vise zastitu, onda je to podatak za debelo se zamisliti.
(Znaci, jako je vjerovatno da je moje cetverogodisnje dijete nakljukano propisanom dozom otrova, a ja se sepurim okolo uvjerena kako mi dijete ima zastitu od kojekakvih bolescura! )

Ako se zna da Amerika ima najveci broj cijepljenih protiv ospica, zausnjaka i rubeole, istovremeno i stalne pojave bolesti medju cijepljenom populacijom, i to je malo za razmisliti.

Ima toga jako puno....i to je samo jedna strana, strana o ucinkovitosti. O stetnosti ne bih ni pocinjala.
Evo sad su tu kod nas ponovo uveli preporuku da se Rh negativne trudnice cijepe Rh profilaksom dva puta, prije poroda preventivno i kasnije po potrebi.
Eto! Nekome iz dzepa, nekome u dzep.

Zasto je u Srbiji izbila epidemija ospica ako je vecina djece cijepljena?
Imajte na umu da se kao maksimalna trajnost imuniteta istice pet do deset godina, vecina odraslih se ne docjepljuje. Mislim da to sve skupa ima malo veze sa cjepivima, a puno sa zivotnim standardom.

zanimljivo kako pažljivo biramo hranu za naše bebe, pazimo na kalendar dohrane, ne daj bože da pojede nešto špricano
a onda tako nekritično nafilamo bebu takvim strahotama do 6. mj. života da mi je muka
to sam i ja napravila
i bila puno sretnija dok nisam imala pojma što sam mu sve priuštila

zanimljivo kako se još nitko nije javio da popije koktel sastavnica cjepiva za 75 000$ (ili tako nešto), a svom djetetu to mirno ubrizgamo u nemoćni organizam

naravno da jedemo hranu zatrovanu živom, pesticidima, pržimo se na suncu, ali za organizam bebe do 6 mj je to neusporedivo štetnije
zar vi dijete ne zaštitite od sunca.....

i tko kaže da je za ne dobivanje dijabetesa potrebno samo paziti na prehranu
ajde neka i jest tako
neka se onda netko zaštiti od autizma

kad sam saznala da cijepljenje nije samo med i mlijeko (a dugo sam živjela u zabludi) najprije sam bila ljuta na onoga tko mi je uopće otvorio oči
blaženo neznanje
ali što je, tu je, sad moram živjeti s tim i iskoristiti to znanje najbolje što mogu


a ptičja gripa?
ma dajte ljudi, koliko ljudi je umrlo od toga? nekako mi ove godine nije bilo toliko histerije oko toga kao lani
valjda se donald rumsfeld nabrao dovoljno love na tamifluu
:nope:

Zorana, slažem se sa ovim o kampanjama. Navela sam samo podatke za nas za ospice jer je to jedna od zaraznih bolesti čiji broj oboljelih stagnira već 5-10 god, ako ne i više, uz sve podatke o postotku pozitivnog odgovora na cjepivo , to cjepivo je to učinilo, "manjkavo" kako bilo.
Poanta zašto se cjepimo u tri navrata protiv DiTePer+Polio ili Engerix i ini je upravo u tome što se sa svakom injekcijom povećava šansa , u ovom slučaju, za 33.3333% da će organizam imati imunološku reakciju i stvoriti otpornost na tu bolest. Zato se kod izloženih osoba mora provjeriti titar antitijela u slučaju HBV jer može biti jako mali unatoč cijepljenju, ali VEĆINA osoba odreagira velikim titrom.
U RH i u svijetu je trenutno Tbc u porastu, pogledat ću papire ako hoćeš, a najveći problem je rezistentna mikobakterija koja ne reagira na uobičajene antituberkulotike i ZATO se i dalje provodi kampanja BCG-iranja jer za sada nemamo dovoljno dobru metodu screeninga, a ova, premda je li-la, nema nekih negativnih posljedica kao ranije redovito rtg slikanje pluća prije 30-tak g.
Ali mislim da nismo kompetentne ovdje o tome razgovarati.

ma meni je bilo super kad je lani izbila epidemija ospica u njemačkoj pa zabranili zdravoj necijepljenoj djeci da dolaze u školu
a cijepljena nisu ni mogla jer su obolila :lol:

E, ali zasto je BCG-iranje dovoljno dobro za Hrvate, a ne i za npr. Austrijance?
Sto se ospica tice, kazem ti, Amerika navodno ima najveci broj cijepljenih, a i najveci broj oboljenja epidemiloskih razmjera. I to sve medju cijepljenom populacijom.
Antitijela navodno isto ne govore puno o tome tko ce oboliti, tko nece.

Nisam medicinske struke niti se smatram nesto jako kompetentnom. Ali sam majka dvoje djece i to mi daje svako pravo da informacije trazim i da informacije dobijem. Pa da na temelju informacija donesem odluke koje smatram ispravnima. Ne zelim da mi nitko zacepi usta argumentom da nisam kompetentna.

Da, aries, dobro si se sjetila. :)

bolesti su iskorijenjene ili svedene na minimalnu mjeru zbog poboljšanja općih higijenskih, zdravstvenih i prehrambenih uvjeta

to je činjenica
a ne zbog cjepiva
vidljivo po tome što je trend tih bolesti značajno počeo opadati PRIJE uvođenja cjepiva



čak i ako cijepljenjem zaštitimo dijete recimo od ospica, kozica i sl. u dobi kad su relativno bezopasne za njih, a obolijevanje bi im dalo i trajnu imunizaciju, za razliku od cjepiva koja popuste u odrasloj dobi
e, sad, usporedite što takva bezazlena bolest može napraviti odrasloj osobi

a kvragu, dječje bolesti se za neki klinac i zovu dječje

Joj, pa nisam te htjela vrijeđati, niti čepiti usta. :)
Naravno da svatko ima pravo glasa, to sam i gore pisala. Htjela sam reći da dosta toga što se ovdje piše više dolazi iz naših "mamskih" srca i subjektivno je, a abanjenko iz toga može samo pročitatii zašto je neka mama odlučila na cijepljenje, a koja nije. Ona je tražila stručno da joj netko kaže o nuspojavama, kontraindikacijama , zašto da, zašto ne za cijepljenje, kakve su statistike obzirom da mora jako brzo odlučiti. Za taj stručni dio nismo kompetentne, kao mama svatko ima pravo na subjektivno mišljenje.

Ja vecinu svojih podataka skidam s jedne njemacke stranice koja se sluzi podacima Paul-Ehrlich instituta, instituta koji testira cjepiva.

Evo link za zainteresirane, doduse na njemackom je....

http://www.pei.de/cln_049/nn_154420/...tml?__nnn=true

Tu ima dosta informacija, isto na njemackom...

http://www.impfschaden.info/

Ovaj prvi linka je zanimljiv, ima gore i na engleskom.
Joj cure, kako bi bilo super da se sve radi u našu korist i naših bebača, ne bi morale razbijati glavu od mozganja i odluka.
I kada se uzme u obzir da u svemu netko ima novčani interes to je da poludiš!
Već godinama se radi na cjepivu protiv HPVa i učinkovito je već jako dugo, međutim farmaceutskim firmama je tj. onima koji imaju monopol puno veća korist od godišnje zarade od lijekova za liječenje CIN1 i dalje (čitaj antibiotici, razne vaginalete, postupak konizacije, jer se od nekoga mora naručiti instrumenti i sl), nego da se da cjepivo preventivno, ista stvar sa AIDS-om u Africi, j,Americi, uvijek netko ima interes i redovito je na štetu običnih ljudi. Djeca su jo puno osjetljivije pitanje.

Abonjeko, privatni vrtići (najčešće) ne traže potvrdu o cijepljenju, waldorfski u Zgbu nije kada smo mi kretali.

pojma nemam što reći, misliti, napisati...sam to da me STRAH i necij i cijepjenja...moj je primio BCG, Hib, DiTePer, Polio...na Rebru do njegovog krevetića je bio mali od 11mj sa hemofilusom...sad, kak to ak je primio 3doze tog cijepiva??? e, a što bi rekli na to da je moj mali to pokupio...dal bi bilo bolje da je u datom trenutku bio cijepljen il ne????

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Zorana prvotno napisa

Evo link za zainteresirane, doduse na njemackom je....

http://www.pei.de/cln_049/nn_154420/...tml?__nnn=true

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DANKE :love:

Koga zanima, imam skeniranu tablicu "Ovisnost godišnjeg broja oboljenja od zaraznih bolesti o sustavnom cijepljenju djece u RH", pa eto jedne provjerene zdravstvene, znanstvene i statističke činjenice da cijepljenje je izravno povezano sa padom broja oboljelih od zaraznih bolesti.
Zmaj, ja bi, da moja Katja leži uz toga maloga, željela da je cijepljena. Pretpostavljam da je primljen radi otežanog disanja, tzv. sindroma krupa. Ranije je smrtnost od gušenja iznosila 70% a danas zahvaljujući terapiji, dijagnostici i cijepljenju 20%.Ipak ovako bude blaža klinička slika. A da ne govorim o komplikacijama.

bilo pa prošlo....al, da...kad čuješ što sve malim bebama može bit ak se zaraze....a zaraza pokraj nas...uf...

Aries24, zato se i zovu dječje bolesti jer je najveća učestalost oboljenja u dječjoj dobi, a poanta cjepiva je da ih upravo zaštiti u to vrijeme kada su klinci najizloženiji. Npr. ukoliko 7mj. beba dođe u kontakt sa difterijom, a na vrijeme se ne prepozne, velika je vjerojatnost bez intenzivne terapije da će nažalost umrijeti, a kod recimo adolescenata rjeđe se javlja bolest i puno lakše liječi. Kad smo stariji imuni sustav je potpuno zreo i lakše mu se boriti, čak i ako je specifična imunost slabija.

uuu, ima tu masu materijala za pricanje i sukobljavanje stavova...ali recimo sta je sa spanjolskom gripom u prvom svjetskom ratu...dosla je i nedugo zatim prosla ali je ostavila traga...i koga je pokosila???? umrli su oni slabog imuniteta, neuhranjeni i nejaki...zato je potrebno zdravo hraniti djecu, bildati im imunitet a ne im ubrizgavati kemiju...mislim ako i dodje do bolesti lakse ce se othrvati zdrav imunoloski sustav nego sustav pun kemijskih sastojaka "upakiranih" pod cjepivo za ocuvanje zdravlja...zapravo je sve vrlo logicno!!!

bravo, skužila si point :klap:

zato je meni puno važnije npr. zdravo hraniti dijete, maximalno izbjegavati šećer (primjerice, uočena je veza izm. velike konzumacije slatkog i poliomijelitisa), dojim, pije samo vodu, nikakvi sokići i slični bakrači, kupovnu kašicu u životu nije liznuo (ne kažem da su štetne, nego ne znam čega sve ima u njima, a ja volim da mrkva liči na mrkvu kad ju jede)...........
to je definitivno teži put, a ne pouzdati se u čudotvornu zaštitu cjepivom

Bez obzira na hrpu stvari za raspravljanje sve se svodi da je to tvoje dijete i samo tvoja odluka. Ono što u srcu osjećaš da je dobro za tvoje dijete tako i napravi, nije bezveze 15 i više stranica iste ovakve rasprave pod Zdravlje djece. Uvijek se sukobljavaju znanost i nazovimo ne-znanost. Prva se temelji na činjenicama, a druga na brojnim ljudskim iskustvima. Nažalost, svijet nikada nije crno-bijeli, već siv. Poanta je da na kraju čvrsto stojiš iza svoje odluke i apsolutno odgovorna si ti - i prekrasno i teško je biti mama! :love:

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jazzmama prvotno napisa

Bez obzira na hrpu stvari za raspravljanje sve se svodi da je to tvoje dijete i samo tvoja odluka. Ono što u srcu osjećaš da je dobro za tvoje dijete tako i napravi, nije bezveze 15 i više stranica iste ovakve rasprave pod Zdravlje djece. Uvijek se sukobljavaju znanost i nazovimo ne-znanost. Prva se temelji na činjenicama, a druga na brojnim ljudskim iskustvima. Nažalost, svijet nikada nije crno-bijeli, već siv. Poanta je da na kraju čvrsto stojiš iza svoje odluke i apsolutno odgovorna si ti - i prekrasno i teško je biti mama! :love:

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jazzmama :*

aries, ovo je u redu sto radis...mi smo makrobioticari i jako pazimo na zdravu i kombiniranu prehranu, ali vidis, problem je sto ja ne dojim...dojila sam do 3.mj. nilinog zivota i onda sam MORALA (glupa rijec ali iza nje stoji neka sasvim druga, duga prica)nastaviti s fakultetom (redovna sam studentica jos uvijek) i mlijeko mi je pocelo kronicno nestajati jer se nisam izdajala satima...znam, mozda sam trebala biti upornija ali sto je-tu je...i zato mi nije svejedno za nilin imunitet...svjesna sam koliko joj je moje mlijeko po tom pitanju znacilo...i zato nisam za cjepiva koja ce udarati po njezinom, za sada dobrom i jakom (ali ne i najsjajnijem i najzdravijem jer ne doji) imunitetu...vec radje pustiti da se imunitet sam razvija uz pomoc najbolje prehrane koju joj mogu pruziti sada (i ranije tijekom cijele trudnoce)...

gle, ni ja nisam za apsolutno necijepljenje
smatram da nije isto dijete cijepiti sa mjesec dana i sa 3 ili 4 godine
a kad djeca prime najviše cjepiva?

u prvih 6 mj života
onda kad su najslabija i najranjivija

a zašto baš tad?
moje skromno mišljenje je da su tad i roditelji "najtanji", najlakše ih je natjerati pedijatru i manipulirati

Ukratko zasto ne cijepiti, ma ne bih ni pasa a kamoli svoje najdraze na svijetu!!! A za one koji ne razumiju Engleski, ako treba prevesti cu.

Besides introducing foreign proteins and even live viruses into the bloodstream, each vaccine has its own preservative, neutralizer and carrying agent, none of which are indigenous to the body. For instance, the triple antigen, DPT, which is the Diphtheria, Pertussis, Tetanus vaccine, contains the following poisons: Formaldehyde, Mercury, and aluminum phosphate, and that's from the Physician's Desk Reference, 1980. The packet insert accompanying the vaccine, lists the following poisons: aluminum potassium sulfate, a mercury derivative called Thimersol and sodium phosphate. The packet insert for the polio vaccine lists monkey kidney cell culture, lactalbumin hydrozylate, antibiotics and calf serum. The packet insert for the MMR vaccine produced by Merck Sharp and Dhome which is for measles, mumps and rubella lists chick embryo and neomycin, which is a mixture of antibiotics.

Now chick embryo, monkey kidney cells and calf serum are all foreign proteins which are biological substances composed of animal cells which because they enter directly into the bloodstream can become part of our genetic material. They can become part of our genetic material, folks, remember that, it's going to be important later. These foreign proteins, as well as other carriers and reaction products of a vaccine are potential allergens and can produce anaphylactic shock. Folks, anaphylactic shock is a nice word for brain damage. Reading on...

Another problem with vaccines is that they go directly into the bloodstream without filtering by the liver. Dr. William Albrecht tells us the following, "If you take water into your system as a drink, it goes into your bloodstream directly from the stomach, but if you take in fats, they move in through your lymphatic system. When you take other substances like carbohydrates and proteins, they go into the intestines and from there are passed into the liver as the body's chemical filter. Before they go out into the blood and circulate in the body. Most of your vaccination serums and proteins are not filtered by the liver, consequently vaccinations can be a terrific shock to the system. Injections of foreign substances like viruses, toxins and foreign proteins into the blood stream via vaccinations, have been associated with diseases and disorders to the blood, brain, nervous system and skin. Rare diseases such as atypical measles and monkey fever as well as such well- known disorders as premature aging, allergies, etc. have been associated with vaccines. Also linked to immunizations are such well-known diseases as cancer, leukemia, paralysis, multiple sclerosis, arthritis, and sudden infant death syndrome."
Folks, I'm not making this up. This is mostly out of Physician's Desk Reference, 1980, and Organic Consumer Reports of 1977.

Now, let me tell you some of the effects of vaccinations that the medical profession admits to as expected side effects of various vaccines, again from Walene James' book. The insert for the DTP vaccine, which is for Diphtheria, Pertussis and Tetanus, under side effects and adverse reactions are listed the following:

Severe temperature elevations 105 degrees or higher.
Collapse with rapid recovery.
Collapse followed by prolonged prostration in shock-like state.
Screaming episodes.
Isolated convulsions with or without fever.
Frank encephalopathy, which is brain damage, with changes in the level of consciousness, focal neurological signs, convulsions with or without permanent neurological and/or mental deficit.
Nice big words,folks, but it's talking about brain damage, shock and severe temperature.

The occurrence of sudden infant death syndrome, which is SIDS, that's the acronym, has been reported following the DPT vaccine. Now, the whooping cough vaccine which is a component in the DPT vaccine has such a high percentage of neurological complications, including death, that several physicians have decided not to give it at all.

And that is quoting Dr. Robert Mendelsohn. He goes on to say, Dr. Edward B. Shaw, a distinguished university of California physician has stated in the Journal of the American Medical Association in March, 1975, "I doubt that the decrease in pertussis is due to the vaccine, which itself is a very poor antigen, and an extremely dangerous one, with many very serious complications."
Reading on from Walene James' book: "A recent study at UCLA estimates that as many as 1 in every 13 children had persistent, high-pitched crying after the DTP shot. This may be indicative of brain damage in the recipient child," says Dr. Bobby Young. And later on he says, "You know, we start off with healthy infants, and we pop them not once, but three or four times with a vaccine. The probability of causing damage is the same each time. My greatest fear is that very few of them escape some kind of neurological damage out of this."

An even more recent figure on the reaction to the DTP vaccine indicates that 1 in every 100 children react with convulsions or collapse or high-pitched screaming. One out of every 3 of these, that is 1 out of every 300 will remain permanently damaged. Now, according to the testimony of the Assistant Secretary of Health, Edward Grant, Jr., before the u.S. Senate Committee on May 3rd, 1985, every year 35,000 children suffer neurological damage because of the DTP vaccine. Bet your doctor didn't tell you that, folks. It just makes you wonder why he never told you this, doesn't it. It also makes you want to run out and get your kids vaccinated, doesn't it? Well, it gets worse.

Here are some of the long term effects of vaccines. This brings us to perhaps the most serious charge against vaccination, the subtle long-term effects. And again, I'm reading from Walene James' book.

Evidence suggests that immunizations damage the immune system itself. By focusing exclusively on increased antibody production, which is only one aspect of the immune process, immunizations isolate dysfunction and allow it to substitute for the entire immune response, because vaccines trick the body so that it will no longer initiate a generalized response. They accomplished what the entire immune system seems to have been evolved to prevent. That is, they place the virus directly into the blood and give it access to the major immune organs and tissues without any obvious way of getting rid of it.

The long-term persistence of viruses and other foreign proteins within the cells of the immune system has been implicated in a number of chronic and degenerative diseases. In 1976 Dr. Robert Simpson of Rutgers university addressed science writers at a seminar of the American Cancer Society, and pointed out the following. "Immunization programs against flu, measles, mumps, polio and so forth may actually be seeding humans with RNA to form latent pro viruses in cells throughout the body. These latent pro viruses could be molecules in search of diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, lupus, Parkinson's disease, and perhaps cancer."

Remember that, folks, seeding humans with RNA to form latent pro viruses in cells throughout the body. That's important. Moving on...

Live viruses, the primary antigenic material of vaccines, (don't be scared by antigenic, folks, it just means any agent that will stimulate antibody production) the primary antigenic material of vaccines, which are live viruses, are capable of surviving or remaining latent in the host cell for years, without provoking acute disease. They attach their own genetic material as an extra particle or episome to the chromosomes of the host cell and replicate along with it. This allows the host cell to continue its own normal functions for the most part, but imposes on it additional instructions for the synthesis of viral proteins. This presence of antigenic material in the host cell can not fail to provoke auto immune phenomenon, such as herpes, shingles, warts, tumors, both benign and malignant, and diseases of the central nervous system such as various forms of paralysis and inflammation of the brain.
So what we're actually talking about here, folks, is viral genetic material being incorporated into your cells, and laying the groundwork for auto immune diseases. And we're going to get into this right now. Reading on...

If the components of the immune system were designed to help the organism discriminate self from non-self as a number of researchers believe, then latent viruses, auto immune phenomenon and cancer would seem to represent different aspects of chronic immune failure, wherein the immune system cannot recognize its own cells as unambiguously its own, or eliminate parasites as unequivocally foreign. By the same token, we might say that the inability of the immune system to distinguish between harmful and harmless substances in the environment, such as allergies, constitutes another aspect of chronic immune failure.

Folks, what they're saying here is that vaccines encourage chronic immune failure, by virtue of the genetic material that you get shot up into your bloodstream whenever you get vaccinated.

The well-known author, lecturer and health activist, Betty Lee Morales, writes that her parents who were naturopathic doctors predicted 50 years ago that cancer would be epidemic in her lifetime as a result of mass vaccinations.
Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, who is an authority on vaccinations, and truly one of the most heroic medical doctors in this century... [Because he is telling the truth]... extends this idea when he says, "I think that most of the degenerative diseases are going to be shown to be due to x-rays, drugs and polluted food, additives, preservatives, and immunizations. With all of our discoveries about the effects on the human body of ingesting substances not found in nature, one thing we ought to know by now, is that many of these toxins, and vaccinations are toxins by definition, kill slowly, or kill only after the lapse of significant periods of time.

And that's a quote from Nicholas von Hoffman in his Washington Post column. Now from around the world. From West Germany, we read of more vaccination casualties. A reader writing to Organic Consumer Report, June 13, 1968 mentions an article which appeared in Medical World which stated that about 3,000 children each year suffer varying degrees of brain damage as a result of the small pox vaccination. This same writer mentions another medical journal in which Dr. G. Kotel reported that in the previous year, small pox vaccination damaged the hearing of 3,296 children in W. Germany and 71 became totally deaf. Hearing loss was reported by Dr. William Albrecht, who said in the article that I quoted earlier, that a typhoid shot he received made him stone deaf in one ear as well as deathly ill at the time of the shot. Now listen to this, folks, because this is where the big con starts.

In case after case of deaths which are really deaths from vaccinations, the cause of death is never listed as the vaccine. Asthma, however, acute lymphatic leukemia, streptococcal cellulitis, tubercular meningitis, and infantile paralysis are just a few of the fake causes of death listed on the death certificate of people who are dying from vaccinations. So much for these poisons being safe, now let's see how effective they are.

Statistics from around the world show unequivocally that infectious diseases like small pox, diphtheria, whooping cough, scarlet fever, etc., began to disappear long before vaccinations ever came on the scene. Now I'm quoting World Health Statistics Annual 1973-1976, Volume II. "There has been a steady decline of infectious diseases in most developing countries regardless of the percentage of immunizations administered in these countries."
I'll bet you didn't know that, folks, and I'll bet you didn't know this either, but I do know this from my research and from my own experimentation; personal hygiene and diet stop diseases, folks, not injecting virulent free-floating genetic material into your veins with all kinds of poisonous cancerous carrying agents which is what vaccines are. I'm going to now give you a key as to why you've been conned into believing that vaccines do stop diseases. I'm looking at a chart from Australian Nurses Journal from June of 1981. A top chart shows a curve of deaths per million children under 15 attributable to scarlet fever, diphtheria, whooping cough and measles. We're looking at a graph here. The graph runs the years from 1860 to 1965, and the death rate just goes down, having peaked in 1860 at 6,000 fatalities per million, and bottoming out near zero in 1965. So, it's just a downward sloping line going down from 6000 to 0 from 1860 to 1965. It looks really impressive, like could all of these communicable diseases have been wiped out.
However, the only problem is that immunizations were introduced into this picture in the 1940s when the number of fatalities per million had already dropped from 6000 to 1000, thus from looking at the nearly straight line of the curve, you see that the vaccinations did absolutely nothing, because there is no alteration in the rate of disappearance of these diseases from the vaccinations, at the time when the vaccinations first started to be administered.
A similar chart below it refers to tuberculosis and typhoid from 1900 to 1960, and again the line's a straight slopes downward, and you can see that the epidemics simply ran their course naturally, and are totally unaffected by the vaccination programs, but the medical industry wants you to believe that vaccines are what wipe out diseases and that is totally a bold-faced lie.
If you've never read the book, How To Lie With Statistics, by Daryl Huff, I strongly suggest you do because you will get a much better idea of how you've been tricked.

Now, I want to tell you about a much bigger lie that you've been fed. I want to talk to you about polio, because polio is a disease that most people think was the great success story of vaccinations. Let me read again from Walene James' book. Jonas Salk, the discoverer of the Salk polio vaccine has been called the 20th century miracle maker, and the savior of countless lives. We read glowing reports of the dramatic decrease in polio in the u.S. as a result of the Salk vaccine.
For instance, the Virginia State Department of Health distributes a folder which tells us that polio vaccines reduced the incidence of polio in the u.S. from 18,000 cases in 1954 to fewer than 20 in 1973-78. A recent article in Modern Maturity states that in 1953 there were 15,000 some odd cases of polio in the u.S. and by 1957 due to the Salk vaccine, the number had dropped to 2499.

However, during the 1962 Congressional hearings on HR10541, Dr. Bernard Greenberg, head of the Department of Biostatistics at the university of North Carolina, School of Public Health, testified that not only [now listen to this, folks...] not only did polio increase substantially after the introduction of mass and frequently compulsory immunization programs, but statistics were manipulated and statements made by the Public Health Service to give the opposite impression.
You have been lied to folks. The polio vaccine caused more polio than it protected people from. Moving on...

For instance, in 1957, the North Carolina Health Department made glowing claims for the efficacy of the Salk vaccine, showing how polio steadily decreased from 1953 to 1957. These figures were challenged by Dr. Fred Klenner who pointed out that it wasn't until 1955 that a single person in the state even received the polio vaccine injection.
Even then, the injections were administered on a very limited basis because of the number of polio cases resulting from the vaccine. It wasn't until 1956 that polio vaccinations assumed inspiring proportions. The 61% drop in polio cases in 1954 was credited to the Salk vaccine, when it wasn't even in the state yet. Nevertheless, by 1957, when the massive vaccination program had taken place, polio was again on the increase.
Digest that for a minute, folks, let Bill flip the tape over, and we'll be back in a minute......... Okay, back to the Salk vaccine.

Other ways polio statistics were manipulated to give the impression of Salk vaccine success follow:

Redefinition of an epidemic. More cases were required to refer to polio as an epidemic after the introduction of the Salk vaccine. In other words, you needed 20 cases per hundred thousand to have an epidemic before the vaccine was introduced, and after the vaccine they changed that number to 35 cases per hundred thousand per year to require the definition of epidemic. Redefinition of the disease. In order to qualify for classification as paralytic polio mytolitis, the patient had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for at least 60 days after the onset of the disease.
Now that's after they started the vaccination programs, folks. Before the vaccination program started in 1954, the patient had to exhibit paralytic symptoms for only 24 hours. What this means folks, is that if you walked into a doctor's office before the vaccine was introduced, and you said, "Oh, I have paralytic symptoms here. I've had them for about 2 weeks." They'd say, "Oh, that's polio. You've had it for more than a day." But after the vaccine, if after the vaccine, you walked into that same doctor's office, and you say, "Oh, I've had these symptoms for 2 or 3 weeks, now." They'd say, "Oh, wait two months, then we can call it polio." That's how the statistics get manipulated, folks. Moving on...Doctor Greenberg said, "This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely paralytic poliomyelitis, with a longer lasting paralysis.

The third way statistics were manipulated was mislabeling. After the introduction of the Salk vaccine, cocsacci virus and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis," explained Dr. Greenberg, "and in 1954 large numbers of these cases were undoubtedly mislabeled as paralytic polio." Now, another way of reducing the incidence of disease by way of semantics or statistical artifacts, as Dr. Greenberg calls it, is to simply reclassify the disease.

Now, I have my own version of this here, folks. From the Los Angeles County Health Index Morbidity and Mortality Reportable Disease Data, I'm looking at a chart of cases of viral or aseptic meningitis and polio from 1955 to 1966, and lo and behold, what do I find. From 1955 to 1966 cases of polio dropped from 273 cases to 5. Ah, but, the number of cases of aseptic meningitis from 1955 to 1966 increases in almost the same proportion from 50 cases to 256 cases. They simply changed the name, same disease, and you thought polio was wiped out at that point.
Now, folks, the reality is this. Diseases, like everything else in nature, follow cycles. They come in, they reach their peak and leave, and no vaccination program on Earth has ever been able to change that. Polio disappeared in Europe between 1940 and 1950 without any vaccination programs, whatsoever.
In 1958, Israel had a massive type 1 polio epidemic after mass immunizations. And from the same hearings on HR10541, that I talked about earlier, we find out that Massachusetts had a type 2 polio outbreak and there were more paralytic cases in people who were triple vaccinated than in the people who were unvaccinated. Surprise, surprise! You thought the vaccine protected you, didn't you? Well, most of those cases of polio came from the vaccination. And that's fact, folks. Even Jonas Salk has admitted it now that more than two-thirds of the polio in this country [then] came from his vaccine. From Coutler and Fisher's book, DPT: A Shot in The Dark, we learn:

There is a natural tendency for doctors to under-report whooping cough when it occurs in a vaccinated population, and to over report it when it appears in an unvaccinated population. Which means that if you go into a doctor's office and you are allegedly vaccinated, and you have whooping cough, they won't call it whooping cough. They'll call it something else, and that's how they keep all our statistics nice and safe and clean. Same thing's been done with measles, folks; reading from Walene James' book:

From 1958 to 1966, the number of measles cases reported each year dropped from 800,000 to 200,000. The drug industry claimed this was due to vaccinations. However, there are some very interesting discrepancies. Number one, the incidence of measles had already been declining steadily for the past 100 years and was totally unaffected by the immunization programs for measles.
It wasn't until 1967 that the live virus vaccine, which is presently used, was introduced, because the killed virus vaccine which came out in 1963 was found to be ineffective and harmful, and yet, the vaccine which was good, and which they alleged did the job, did not even come out during the time that they are trying to take credit for wiping out the diseases in.
A survey of pediatricians in New York City revealed that only 3.2% of them were actually reporting measles cases to the Health Department, and
in 1974 the Center for Disease Control determined that there were 36 cases of measles in all of Georgia. But the Georgia State Surveillance System reported 660 cases that same year.
A large proportion of children are found to be sero-negative (which means they show no evidence of immunity in blood tests) 4-5 years after receiving the rubella vaccination. In another study, 80% of army recruits who had been immunized against rubella, came down with the disease. Once again, folks, evidence that these vaccinations will not even protect you against the disease they are supposed to protect you from. And it goes on to say here that the same results were shown in a consecutive study that took place in an institution for the mentally retarded.

Now, could the real reason vaccination promise and performance seem so contradictory be that the vaccination premise itself is faulty? As stated earlier, the theory of vaccination postulates that the use of immunizing agents produces a mild form of the disease for which specific antibodies are formed that will protect the body when the real thing comes along. But as I mentioned earlier, it doesn't work that way and Dr. Alec Burton, who is another brave doctor out there, points out the following:

That there are children with what is called A Gamma Globulin Anemia [which means that they cannot produce antibodies], and yet these same children develop and recover from measles and other diseases as spontaneously as other children.

Now what this means is that there are children out there who can't produce antibodies. Nevertheless, antibodies are the things that vaccines are supposed to stimulate in you against the particular diseases they're designed for, and yet, as shown here by Dr. Alec Burton, even without those antibodies, you will get cured or you will naturally become healthy again after having this disease without any vaccination. So, folks, so much for the idea that vaccinations are the only way to protect you, and the basic premise that they are built on, namely stimulating antibodies, is totally wrong.

The mystery begins to unravel when we look at the work of Drs. Dettman and Kalikerinos. In one of their articles, they quote Dr. Wendall Bellfield of San Jose, California, who says the following. "Antibodies are not needed when the primary immunological defense which is leukocytes and interferon, etc. is functioning at maximum capacity.

Interferon production appears to occur only when the ascorbate level [and ascorbate is just a big word for vitamin C] and the primary defense components are at low levels, thereby permitting some viruses to survive the primary defense.

What this basically means, folks, is that the premise that vaccinations are built upon are totally false. Vaccinations are allegedly designed to stimulate antibody production for the specific diseases they're designed for, and yet, as Dr. Burton showed earlier, antibodies are not even necessary for your body to properly and effectively combat diseases.

In short, folks, this means that vaccines do not protect you against the diseases they are supposed to protect you from. Diseases, in this day and age have become self-fulfilling prophecy because doctors tend not to diagnose specific diseases if the subject has already been vaccinated against those specific diseases. Vaccinations, unquestionably, do not guarantee you any protection, their side effects are disastrous, and often worse than the disease, itself, and worse still, the premise that vaccines are built upon, are pure, unadulterated nonsense.

You've been taught that antibodies, are the little shock troops of your immune system, that they go out and kill all the nasty germs that are attacking you day in and day out, and the reality, however, is that antibody production is not your primary immunological defense, and that the idea of stimulating them by injecting you with poisons, serums, and free-floating genetic material, and all kinds of poisonous agents and stabilizers and vaccines, is completely absurd.

When immunity to a disease is acquired naturally, the possibility of reinfection is only 3.2%, according to journalist Marion Thompson. If the immunity comes from a vaccination, however, the chance of reinfection is 80%.
Did you hear that? Eighty percent chance of reinfection from unnaturally acquired immunity from vaccinations. Dr. William Howard Hay has pointed out that in any epidemic of communicable disease, only a small percentage of the population contracts the disease. Most people are naturally immune, so if a man who has been vaccinated does not contract the disease that really proves absolutely nothing. If he had not been vaccinated, the chances are he would not have contracted the disease, anyway. We have no way of knowing. Further,

Just because you give somebody a vaccine and maybe get an antibody reaction doesn't mean a thing. The only true antibodies, of course, are those you get naturally.
And that's from Dr. Dettman in an interview with Jay Patrick. Natural diseases are a lot safer than acute artificial complications from vaccinations. And that's a quote from Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, whom I mentioned earlier.

However, perhaps the strongest statement against the effectiveness of artificial immunization comes from Dr. William Howard Hay. It is nonsense to think that you can inject pus, which is most of the serums that we're talking about, into a little child, and in any way improve its health. There is no such thing as immunization, but we sell it under that name. If we could, by any means, build up a natural resistance to disease through these artificial means, I would applaud it to the echo, but we cannot do it.
The body has its own methods of defense. These defense methods depend upon the vitality of the body at the time. If it is vital enough, the body will resist all infections. If it isn't vital enough, it won't and you can't change the vitality of the body for the better by introducing poisons of any kind into it.

And those poisons of any kind he's referring to are vaccines. Vaccinations are poisons, they do not protect you, they are weakening our immune systems, and my research indicates that allergies are the direct result of large scale immunization programs foisted upon us in the last fifty years, and isn't it weird how right now, there is such a big push on to force every child and every person in the u.S. to be vaccinated for all kinds of diseases. Thanks, Bill Clinton. Now, be logical, folks. The only person you put at risk, even by the medical industry's own stupid logic is yourself, if you refuse to be vaccinated. Think about it; if everyone else is vaccinated, then they shouldn't get the disease, right? Then the only person that you're putting at risk by not being vaccinated is you. Makes sense. Then how does the government dare to justify forced vaccination?
I can assure you that even without any intentionally created diseases, many Americans will be dying over the next ten to fifteen years, and AIDS will be blamed. Be careful.

Wouldn't it be ironic if AIDS as we know it, did not exist at all. >From my own research I can tell you with complete confidence that the vaccines being foisted upon us can weaken our immune systems to the degree that AIDS-like symptoms and reactions will be all too common with or without AIDS. Do you remember what I read earlier about the genetic material being introduced into our bloodstreams from vaccinations, and producing auto-immune diseases. Folks, we don't even need a government-created disease to have massive epidemic rates of auto-immune failure, because that's what these vaccines are promoting.

Now you've been conned another way, and this is by the word virus. Because you think you know what a virus is. All living organisms, including bacteria and viruses contain genetic material, which is DNA and RNA. In fact, live viruses themselves are genetic messages.

Live bacteria and viruses can transfer their genetic information through animal cells, including human cells which are taken up by other cells in the body. Although the body generally will not make antibodies against its own tissue, it appears that slight modifications of the antigenic character of tissues will cause it to appear foreign to the immune system, and thus a fair target for antibody production. [Remember what I said earlier, about how vaccines give us genetic material that can incorporate into our cells.]

Thus vaccines lay the foundation for auto-immune diseases and other disorders of the immune system such as rheumatoid arthritis, rheumatic fever, lupus, sclerodema, and a lot of other nasty diseases. It is reasonable to assume that our contemporary "epidemic of allergies" has at least some of its roots in the practice of vaccination.

And again, that's from Walene James.

Now beware, folks, I have saved the best for last. The Clinton Administration has buckled under the pressure to implement a stepped up mass vaccination program. Every day I see stories of the various state laws forcing Americans to inject these poisons into their veins and don't buckle to the pressure, because you don't have to because no one, absolutely no one, can force you to inject anything into your blood, and no one can force you or your children to be vaccinated. I've avoided vaccinations, and you can, too.

They will threaten you with not letting your kids go to school, or not get a job, or anything else they can think of, but it is all, excuse this folks, it's all bullshit. However, if enough people do not speak up now, we may all be forced to take in these horrible poisons.

Often, all it takes to avoid vaccinations, is a simple form you can type up by yourself, referring to Senate bill 942 #3380, under the title, Exemption From Immunizations, and let me read that bill right now, it's really interesting. 3380. Immunization of a person shall not be required for admission to a school or other institution if the guardian parent or adult has assumed responsibility for his or her custody or care in the case of a minor, or the person seeking admission themselves, files with the governing authority a letter or affidavit stating that such vaccination is contrary to his or her belief.

The other thing you can do is go to your doctor and ask for a vaccination guarantee. Basically, what you're saying in this little form is that, you're guaranteeing me that this vaccination will protect me and not cause any nasty side effects, or you will give me a million dollars. And if a doctor refuses to sign that you can refuse to get the vaccination.

Čiji je to citat? Neke stvari su dobar argument protiv cijepljenja, ali sve to pomalo zvuči beletristički (i američki).

triba to pročitat...baš si printam...a jel ti u USA cijepiš il ne????

Aries24, pa to je poanta cijepljenja!!!
Bolesti protiv kojih se cijepi su najučestalije u to doba i upravo napadaju takav imunološki "deficitan" organizam i zato se cijepi da se na umjetan način potakne organizam da stvori antitijela i imunološke stanice i bude spreman na borbu sa uzročnicima. Kako ne kužite da i uz izvrsnu prehranu i zdrav način života, imuni sustav nije dovoljno zreo, i ukoliko dijete oboli od difterije, vjerojatno bez terapije će umrijeti, ukoliko oboli od mumpsa stradavaju i gušterača, a muški mogu ostati sterilni, tetanus - zašto se cijepimo i mi odrasli kada se ubodemo na hrđavi čavao, od toga se jako ružno umire - nisam nikada mislila da ću pisati takve argumene, ali apsolutno sam za cijepljenje upravo što znam što se može desiti, a nažalost neke stvari sam i vidjela. Za svoje dijete bi dala život, i štitit ću ga dok budem sposobna, a mislim da je ovo, za mene, jedan od najboljih načina! Opet!, svatko odlučuje za sebe i mora snositi odgovornost za svoje postupke.

Citiraj:

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zmaj prvotno napisa

triba to pročitat...baš si printam...a jel ti u USA cijepiš il ne????

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Stali smo kad je mladji imao oko godinu. Stariji je nazalost cijepljen i to mi je strasno zao. :(
Mladjemu sada dolazi obavezna doza cijepiva prije upisa u vrtic. Doktor vec zna moje stajaliste, slijedeci put mu donosim ovaj tekst kojeg jos nije procitao. Imam ja toga jost dosta, ali ne zelim previse zamarati ljude. Bitno je da stavim poantu mog stajalista.

Citiraj:

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jazzmama prvotno napisa

Aries24, pa to je poanta cijepljenja!!!
Bolesti protiv kojih se cijepi su najučestalije u to doba i upravo napadaju takav imunološki "deficitan" organizam i zato se cijepi da se na umjetan način potakne organizam da stvori antitijela i imunološke stanice i bude spreman na borbu sa uzročnicima. Kako ne kužite da i uz izvrsnu prehranu i zdrav način života, imuni sustav nije dovoljno zreo, i ukoliko dijete oboli od difterije, vjerojatno bez terapije će umrijeti, ukoliko oboli od mumpsa stradavaju i gušterača, a muški mogu ostati sterilni, tetanus - zašto se cijepimo i mi odrasli kada se ubodemo na hrđavi čavao, od toga se jako ružno umire - nisam nikada mislila da ću pisati takve argumene, ali apsolutno sam za cijepljenje upravo što znam što se može desiti, a nažalost neke stvari sam i vidjela. Za svoje dijete bi dala život, i štitit ću ga dok budem sposobna, a mislim da je ovo, za mene, jedan od najboljih načina! Opet!, svatko odlučuje za sebe i mora snositi odgovornost za svoje postupke.

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Ti ocito nisi procitala ovaj gore tekst. Molim te procitaj, neda mi se tako veliki tekst prevoditi, ali bih to svakako ucinila ako stvarno netko zeli.
Meni je ludilo unositi u tako mlado i cisto i zdravo tijelo ovoliku kolicinu toksina, kemije, zivotinjskih proteina (stanice ljudskog fetusa, kravljega, majmunovog, itd), kancerogenih supstanci, itd. da bi mozda, ma bas mozda izazvalo imunitet na odredjene bolesti, od kojih mnoge uopce nisu toliko opasne (vericele, kozice, podusnjaci itd), a ostale su iskorijenjene, ili je postotak za dobivanje toliko nizak, da se vise niti ne spominje. I onda opet koliko taj imunitet traje? Umjetna imunizacija moze da se vrati u 80% slucajeva, dok kod prirodne samo u 2-3 % slucajeva.
Tokom godina ne mogu ti niti opisati koliko sam slucajeva cula da su se cijepili, pa tu istu bolest dobili (vericelle najvise i gripa).
Mislim isto tako da postoji puno bolja obrana, a to je kad vec imamo imunitet da ga pojacamo. Alternativa je u tome dosta jaka.
I nema sanse da me netko vise preplasi da ce se nesto desiti mom djetetu zato sto ga nisam cijepila. gore mi je pomisliti da se nesto moze destiti zato sto sam ih nesto cijepila, i zato sto jos uvijek neki ludi metal stoji u mozgu mog dijeteta.
Prijateljica je imala bolno iskustvo svoje kcerke koja je imala tumor na mozgu velicine velike ping-pong loptice. Znam samo da je rekla da su doktori pricali o tome koliko se je ta brojka tumora kod djece danas povecala. Mozda necisti okolis, voda i zrak, ali nekako mi je veca sansa kad direktno ubrizgas nesto u tijelo, koje je bas kancerogeno da tako nesto i izazove.
Ne znam jeste li culi o Vioxx lijeku koji je prije neko vrijeme povucen sa trzista. Povukli su ga nakon sto je ubio otprilike 100 000 ljudi!! Tako su iz nekih cijepiva (?) izvukli Thimerosal (ziva), nakon sto se je brojka oboljelih od Autizma povecala 200% u nekih 15-tak godina.

Citiraj:

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jazzmama prvotno napisa

Aries24, pa to je poanta cijepljenja!!!
Bolesti protiv kojih se cijepi su najučestalije u to doba i upravo napadaju takav imunološki "deficitan" organizam i zato se cijepi da se na umjetan način potakne organizam da stvori antitijela i imunološke stanice i bude spreman na borbu sa uzročnicima. Kako ne kužite da i uz izvrsnu prehranu i zdrav način života, imuni sustav nije dovoljno zreo, i ukoliko dijete oboli od difterije, vjerojatno bez terapije će umrijeti, ukoliko oboli od mumpsa stradavaju i gušterača, a muški mogu ostati sterilni, tetanus - zašto se cijepimo i mi odrasli kada se ubodemo na hrđavi čavao, od toga se jako ružno umire - nisam nikada mislila da ću pisati takve argumene, ali apsolutno sam za cijepljenje upravo što znam što se može desiti, a nažalost neke stvari sam i vidjela. Za svoje dijete bi dala život, i štitit ću ga dok budem sposobna, a mislim da je ovo, za mene, jedan od najboljih načina! Opet!, svatko odlučuje za sebe i mora snositi odgovornost za svoje postupke.

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Ti ocito nisi procitala ovaj gore tekst. Molim te procitaj, neda mi se tako veliki tekst prevoditi, ali bih to svakako ucinila ako stvarno netko zeli.
Meni je ludilo unositi u tako mlado i cisto i zdravo tijelo ovoliku kolicinu toksina, kemije, zivotinjskih proteina (stanice ljudskog fetusa, kravljega, majmunovog, itd), kancerogenih supstanci, itd. da bi mozda, ma bas mozda izazvalo imunitet na odredjene bolesti, od kojih mnoge uopce nisu toliko opasne (vericele, kozice, podusnjaci itd), a ostale su iskorijenjene, ili je postotak za dobivanje toliko nizak, da se vise niti ne spominje. I onda opet koliko taj imunitet traje? Umjetna imunizacija moze da se vrati u 80% slucajeva, dok kod prirodne samo u 2-3 % slucajeva.
Tokom godina ne mogu ti niti opisati koliko sam slucajeva cula da su se cijepili, pa tu istu bolest dobili (vericelle najvise i gripa).
Mislim isto tako da postoji puno bolja obrana, a to je kad vec imamo imunitet da ga pojacamo. Alternativa je u tome dosta jaka.
I nema sanse da me netko vise preplasi da ce se nesto desiti mom djetetu zato sto ga nisam cijepila. gore mi je pomisliti da se nesto moze destiti zato sto sam ih nesto cijepila, i zato sto jos uvijek neki ludi metal stoji u mozgu mog dijeteta.
Prijateljica je imala bolno iskustvo svoje kcerke koja je imala tumor na mozgu velicine velike ping-pong loptice. Znam samo da je rekla da su doktori pricali o tome koliko se je ta brojka tumora kod djece danas povecala. Mozda necisti okolis, voda i zrak, ali nekako mi je veca sansa kad direktno ubrizgas nesto u tijelo, koje je bas kancerogeno da tako nesto i izazove.
Ne znam jeste li culi o Vioxx lijeku koji je prije neko vrijeme povucen sa trzista. Povukli su ga nakon sto je ubio otprilike 100 000 ljudi!! Tako su iz nekih cijepiva (?) izvukli Thimerosal (ziva), nakon sto se je brojka oboljelih od Autizma povecala 200% u nekih 15-tak godina.

Citiraj:

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jazzmama prvotno napisa

Aries24, pa to je poanta cijepljenja!!!
Bolesti protiv kojih se cijepi su najučestalije u to doba i upravo napadaju takav imunološki "deficitan" organizam i zato se cijepi da se na umjetan način potakne organizam da stvori antitijela i imunološke stanice i bude spreman na borbu sa uzročnicima. Kako ne kužite da i uz izvrsnu prehranu i zdrav način života, imuni sustav nije dovoljno zreo, i ukoliko dijete oboli od difterije, vjerojatno bez terapije će umrijeti, ukoliko oboli od mumpsa stradavaju i gušterača, a muški mogu ostati sterilni, tetanus - zašto se cijepimo i mi odrasli kada se ubodemo na hrđavi čavao, od toga se jako ružno umire - nisam nikada mislila da ću pisati takve argumene, ali apsolutno sam za cijepljenje upravo što znam što se može desiti, a nažalost neke stvari sam i vidjela. Za svoje dijete bi dala život, i štitit ću ga dok budem sposobna, a mislim da je ovo, za mene, jedan od najboljih načina! Opet!, svatko odlučuje za sebe i mora snositi odgovornost za svoje postupke.

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Ti ocito nisi procitala ovaj gore tekst. Molim te procitaj, neda mi se tako veliki tekst prevoditi, ali bih to svakako ucinila ako stvarno netko zeli.
Meni je ludilo unositi u tako mlado i cisto i zdravo tijelo ovoliku kolicinu toksina, kemije, zivotinjskih proteina (stanice ljudskog fetusa, kravljega, majmunovog, itd), kancerogenih supstanci, itd. da bi mozda, ma bas mozda izazvalo imunitet na odredjene bolesti, od kojih mnoge uopce nisu toliko opasne (vericele, kozice, podusnjaci itd), a ostale su iskorijenjene, ili je postotak za dobivanje toliko nizak, da se vise niti ne spominje. I onda opet koliko taj imunitet traje? Umjetna imunizacija moze da se vrati u 80% slucajeva, dok kod prirodne samo u 2-3 % slucajeva.
Tokom godina ne mogu ti niti opisati koliko sam slucajeva cula da su se cijepili, pa tu istu bolest dobili (vericelle najvise i gripa).
Mislim isto tako da postoji puno bolja obrana, a to je kad vec imamo imunitet da ga pojacamo. Alternativa je u tome dosta jaka.
I nema sanse da me netko vise preplasi da ce se nesto desiti mom djetetu zato sto ga nisam cijepila. gore mi je pomisliti da se nesto moze destiti zato sto sam ih nesto cijepila, i zato sto jos uvijek neki ludi metal stoji u mozgu mog dijeteta.
Prijateljica je imala bolno iskustvo svoje kcerke koja je imala tumor na mozgu velicine velike ping-pong loptice. Znam samo da je rekla da su doktori pricali o tome koliko se je ta brojka tumora kod djece danas povecala. Mozda necisti okolis, voda i zrak, ali nekako mi je veca sansa kad direktno ubrizgas nesto u tijelo, koje je bas kancerogeno da tako nesto i izazove.
Ne znam jeste li culi o Vioxx lijeku koji je prije neko vrijeme povucen sa trzista. Povukli su ga nakon sto je ubio otprilike 100 000 ljudi!! Tako su iz nekih cijepiva (?) izvukli Thimerosal (ziva), nakon sto se je brojka oboljelih od Autizma povecala 200% u nekih 15-tak godina.

Citiraj:

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jazzmama prvotno napisa

Čiji je to citat? Neke stvari su dobar argument protiv cijepljenja, ali sve to pomalo zvuči beletristički (i američki).

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Meni je uzelo dosta vremena da pomalo pocmem vjerovati u ovakve stvari. Previse je uzasno da bi normalan covjek mogao povjerovati. Nazalost i da je malo istine u citavom tekstu, zar se ne bi trebali malo upitati sto to ubrizgivamo u nase bebe!?

Vi kako hoćete, a ja si idem zagrliti dijete i dati joj najveću i najnježniju pusu na svijetu i zahvaliti što mi je živa i zdrava. Uz sve ovo marilu što pišeš, mislim da sam napravila za moje dijete pravu stvar, a što mi znače brojke i postoci ako moje dijete oboli - tada se 0.000000000000000000000001% oboljelih od "gotovo iskorijenjene" bolesti ili "bezazlene bolesti" protiv koje se "nema smisla cijepiti" pretvara u 100% na mom djetetu - a ja strepim i pitam se da li sam baš sve napravila za nju ili sam mogla i više?

Jazz, ista stvar i sa cijepljenjem. Sto meni znace price o cjepivima i imunitetu ako bas moje dijete ima nesrecu da ga zadesi neka gadna nus pojava? Ja jednostavno ne znam kako ce se na jedan mladi organizam odraziti ustrcavanje svih tih otrova u organizam. Sad ili za 30 godina.

Ja mislim da je jedina sigurnost koju pruzaju cjepiva ta sto roditelji imaju sistem iza sebe.
Ja sam tako do nedavno razmisljala i moram priznati da me to jos uvijek proganja. bilo koja posljedica cjepiva ce se zakamuflirati, prebacivat ce se odgovornost ili ce se jednostavno reci: a sta da radimo, imali ste tu nesrecu da budete bas vi jedan od .....I nikome nista.
A ako dijete oboli, roditelj je onda taj u koga se prstom upire. Jer je odlucio ostati van sistema. I s tim pritiskom se nekad jednostavno pretesko nositi.

Citiraj:

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Zorana prvotno napisa

Ja mislim da je jedina sigurnost koju pruzaju cjepiva ta sto roditelji imaju sistem iza sebe.
Ja sam tako do nedavno razmisljala i moram priznati da me to jos uvijek proganja. bilo koja posljedica cjepiva ce se zakamuflirati, prebacivat ce se odgovornost ili ce se jednostavno reci: a sta da radimo, imali ste tu nesrecu da budete bas vi jedan od .....I nikome nista.
A ako dijete oboli, roditelj je onda taj u koga se prstom upire. Jer je odlucio ostati van sistema. I s tim pritiskom se nekad jednostavno pretesko nositi.

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da, kako je to tuzno i jadno!!! ako si van sistema ne valja, a ako si U sistemu debelo riskiras!!! Riskiras u oba slucaja ali u prvom barem znas da ako se ista dogodi odgovoran si samo ti i nitko vise, a u ovom drugom odgovorni su doktori koji prepisuju obvezna cjepiva...a koliko je drugima stalo do mojeg djeteta???!!!!!

pročitala sam tekst...i čak i rzumila neš :lol: ...i slažem se da je višenego OGAVNO svom ditetu i bilo kojem drugom ubrizgavat takve gadarije...i još k tome i opet nisu 100% zaštićeni...hm...da onaj mali što je bio krevetić do je dobio Hib a eto proša je 3doze cjepiva....je...ne znam što reći...sigurno da me goni STRAH...i jednog i drugog...evo npr polio!!! valjda davno gledah neku emisiju...i kad vidiš što to napravi ditetu...koma...pa sad jel nije bolj cijepit se???? daj vi "osviješteni" javite se...il koji je postotak da imaš nuspojave od cijepljenja odnosno da dobiješ neku bolest ak se nisi cijepio??? koliku štetu su ta cjepiva mogla il bi tek mogla učinit mom dečku (BCG; Hib, DTP, Polio)??? to je sve prva doza...ajme majko...kako god okreneš...ja sam vodene kozica dobila u 17god!!! ha ha