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Tema: Is Your Body Baby-Friendly?

  1. #1
    TIGY avatar
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    Početno Is Your Body Baby-Friendly?

    Is Your Body Baby-Friendly?

    Unexplained Infertility, Miscarriage & IVF Failure - Explained and Treated


    What to do when your immune system says "no" to pregnancy.
    Tests and treatments to help you conceive and carry to term.





    Evo cure, pokrenuli smo razgovor o imunologiji, a ja upravo u ruci držim knjigu pok. dr. Alan E. Beera ( sa J. Kantecki i J. Reed ), pa ako ste za možemo polako, poglavlje kroz poglavlje obraditi ovu iscrpnu i poučnu knjigu, a ako netko želi može nam pomoći u prijevodu sa eng. na hrv. jezik - neke dijelove. knjiga je jako zanimljiva i nadasve poučna i obrađuje sve ono što ste oduvijek htjele pitati, a niste imale koga.

    Evo ja ću malo započeti sa uvodom u knjigu:

    PREFACE

    Infertility, recurrent pregnancy loss and IVF failure might not be a matter of chance - your immune system may be the cause.


    The worst feeling for most women, after the physical pain of miscarriage and the emotional anguish of an assisted conception failure have long passed, is that of sheer hopelessness. With no answers to be found and no prospect of achieving a healthy pregnancy, many sink into total depression. Living without hope is a soul-destroying existence. The months and then the years pass by. Time may heal, but the doubts amd questions remain; Why has this happened ? What went wrong ? Was it my fault ?

    Having investigated the area for more than 25 years, Dr Alan E. Beer has uncovered explanations for previously "unexplained" infertility, IVF ( in vitro fertilization ) failure and pregnancy loss. He has treated over 7.000 couples, and through his pioneering program has achieved pregnancy success rates of more than 85 % within three natural cycles or IVF attempts.

    Averaging just over 36 years old, his patients could be considered the "no hopers" of reproductive populace, having endured around four failed IVF cycles or pregnancy losses that have been deemed "unexplained" ( or idiopathic ) by mainstream medical practitioners. These are not young women with relatively minor problems, but the battle-weary survivors of years of infertility treatments who have usually tried every conventional and alternative therapy - yet they still achieve success with Dr Beer's program.

    His patients are often self-referred, having discovered Dr Beer through a combination of frustration and determination - unable to accept that no one can explain why they cannot have a baby, or help them overcome their difficulties. In a way, thy too have become pioneers, forging a path through new medical territories and making the journey easier for others to follow. Some have shared their stories here to inspire other women who may be stuck in a hopeless void of unanswered questions.

    Dr Beer has identified five categories of immune problem that can cause pregnancy loss, IVF failure and infertility. The logic behind these theories is explained, as well as the way the immune system works and how imbalances within it can affect pregnanacy outcome. It is then revealed how these problems can be addressed by temporarily regulating the immune response to make the body more "baby-friendly".

    These discoveries will finally put many minds at rest by providing answers to the unanswered questions that can plague those who are experiencing - or have experienced - reproductive failure. As Dr Beer says, "The only way to live with infertility and loss is to fill your mind with facts. You need to find outwhat the problems are, and if they have a reasonably good chance of being treated. Otherwise you sentence yourself to an endless punishment of self-blame, sadness, loss of hope and doubt."

    For the first time ever, this book provides evidence-based facts on a serious human health concern that has so far been shrouded in mystery and confusion. Never before has so much scientific knowledge about pregnancy failure and the immune system been made publicly available and written in way tht can be generally understood.

    This book represents the work and the views of Dr Beer, whose contributions have led to significant developments in the field of reproductive immunology, now one of the most rapidly expanding areas of biomedical science. New cutting-edge treatments are just becoming available within mainstream medicine and critics of this new science are becoming increasingly silenced by the sheer weight of supportive evidence.

    For whatever the arguments and controversies, there is one fact that nobody can dispute; Dr Beer has succeeded where others have failed and has enabled thousands of women all over the world to realize a previously impossible dream - to love and hold a baby of their own.
    Evo kratki uvod u reproduktivnu imunologiju dr. Beer-a , nadam se da vam se sviđa ideja da malo raspravljamo o tome na ovaj način ...

  2. #2
    ina33 avatar
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    Tenks, Tigac, to je onako općenito što piše i na njegovom sajtu, ja sam za daljnje spoznaje, samo ne znam kako ćemo s copy rightom...

  3. #3
    TIGY avatar
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    A budemo nekako, ja kako stignem, okačit ću zanimljivo,
    a naravno i vas čekam, da nam istraživanje bude poučno i iscrpno ...

  4. #4
    dee-dee avatar
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    Početno

    Citiraj ina33 prvotno napisa
    Tenks, Tigac, to je onako općenito što piše i na njegovom sajtu, ja sam za daljnje spoznaje, samo ne znam kako ćemo s copy rightom...
    I mene ovo brine :/

    Knjiga je zaisat super i meni je puno olaksala postupak

  5. #5
    TIGY avatar
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    Evo i uvodna riječ dr. Christo Zouvesa :

    FOREWORD

    Reproductive failure and repeated pregnancy loss is devastating for the patients involved. The devastation is emotional, physical and financial and can mean the loss of valuable avarian time for the patient, and frustration and disappointment for the practitioners involved.

    there is always a reason for any pregnancy loss and this book very eloquently lays out the standard testing. Dr Alan Beer then examines and categorizes what can be done in the so-called unexplained, and by inference "hopeless", cases. once the usual factors like chromosomal abnormalities, uterine defects, infections and the hormonal milieu have been excluded, this book speaks to a group of patients who still have unexplained loss.

    The immune system is at the center of who we are. It protects us against infections and abnormal cells that can in some cases become malignant. Many patients with cancers previously labeled terminal and untreatable are now being treated by inducing a favorable immune response to markers derived from the actual tumors themselves.

    It amazes me how long it has taken fertility practitioners to make the connection between recurrent failed treatment and recurrent loss, and the immune mechanism of attack - given the fact that the implanting embryo is genetically different from the mother or carrier. Something almost magical happens to prevent rejection of this graft in the vast majority of pregnancies. For a small group of patients, this magical event does not happen and we are left with immune attack and thrombosis, which either prevents implantation or causes loss or inadequate intrauterine nutrition.

    Dr Alan Beer has devoted his life to the investigation and treatment of recurrent failed treatment and pregnancy loss. I have had the privilege of knowing him and treating patients with him for almost 15 years.

    In this book, he seeks rational explanations and lays out modalities of treatment, which have helped thousands of patients who previously had been given no hope, to receive the precious gift of Parenthood.



    Christo Zouves, M.D.
    Medical Director
    Zouves fertility Center
    Daly City, California

  6. #6
    TIGY avatar
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    Ok, neću više copy rightat ... hehe ...

    ali neke citate koje smatram bitnim ću ovdje priljepit, a također voljela bi da malo prokomentiramo o tome.

  7. #7
    rvukovi2 avatar
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    što se tiče copy righta-nemate frke, ako se netko interesira za prijevod ja ću tražiti odobrenje od izdavača za prijevod dijela knjige-to nije nikakav problem.

    ako odobre, onda stavim to na portal.

  8. #8
    TIGY avatar
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    joj, rvukovi ... ... to bi bilo super .... :D

  9. #9
    rvukovi2 avatar
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    sad mi samo napisite tocne generalije o knjiyi, znaci

    AUTOR

    IZDAVACKA KUCA

    VLASNIK AUTORSKOG PRAVA

    MAIL ADRESU

    NASLOV KNJIGE I POGLAVLJA KOJEG BI TREBALO PREVESTI

  10. #10
    ina33 avatar
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    Uh, jesam po struci prof. eng., ali nemam baš cajta za prevođenje. Tako da se ja prijavljujem za "čitača" tj. sljedbenika, a ne leadera ove inicijative, malo sam se sad više bacila na podforum niže. A tebe, Tigač, budno pratim, kao i većina nas, dokud si stigla. Nezahvalno je bit pionir i vjerojatno se milijun puta osjećaš kao Pale sam na svijetu i borac protiv vjetrenjača, ali evo ja te čitam i pratim iz virtualnog mraka i zahvalna sam ti na tome što dijeliš s nama, a sigurna sam da nisam jedina. Vjerojatno i ja drugima izgledam kao neki lučonoša i koji put se osjećam kao onaj lik u iz The Life of Bryan Monthyja Pythona. Ja sam ti onako i u životu više sketpik za sve, tako da ne vjerujem ni u što 100% dok nije crno na bijelo, ali me život, kao i nelu37, kao i pola nas ovdje, ipak gura prema razbijanju barijera i istraživanju, tako da sam već naučila - nikad ne reci nikad. I ko zna di ću ja na kraju završit i s čim se bavit, nisam mislila ni da ću dovde dogurat. Koji put sam zavidna onima koje ne istražuju na njihovoj vjeri, ali znam da nisam taj tip. Ko' zna, možda i ja dođem u tu blaženu fazu, jer mi se isto kao i dosta žena koji put čini da zatrudnjivanje na kraju nema ni sa čim veze, ali to su valjda faze malodušnosti, ili prosvjetljenja, ko bi ga znao, ovisno o perspektivi. Tebi, Tigy, u ime naše forumske imunološke 'siročadi' hvala što nam otkrivaš taj smjer i sve najbolje .

  11. #11
    nela37 avatar
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    Draga ina,
    baš sam razmišljala kaj da napišem, kad eto tebe, tako da samo mogu potpisati sve kaj si napisala

    p.s. izgleda da ću morati organizirati i jednu podgrupu imunološke kave
    tigy

  12. #12
    ina33 avatar
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    Ja mogu redigirat tekst tj. bacit oko na nečiji prijevod i popravit ako što ima baš da jako strši, ako taj dio zadatka ne ocjenjujete previše gospodskim i ako nisu sad ogromni chunkovi teksta - evo recimo nešto veličine ovog gore uvoda.. . Tj. mogu biti osoba koju se zove u slučaju prijevodnih nedoumica.

  13. #13
    rvukovi2 avatar
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    samo da vam kažem da je naša lektorica za potpomognutu- Eowyn nedavno rodila i da baš ne znam kako stojimo s lekturom :/ , a bez lekture to ne može ići na portal nipošto.

    tako da se evo odmah javi i neka prof. HJ uz onog tko bi prevodio.

    kad to sve nađete, onda ću tražiti odobrenje.

  14. #14
    ina33 avatar
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    Nisam ta, ja sam prof. eng. i njem., ali mi njemački zakržljao, a engleski zbog posla dodatno hipertrofirao pa sad pričam hrvatskoengleski , što se nekako da primijetit iz mojih postova.

  15. #15
    nela37 avatar
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    pitat ću svoje frendice pa javim!!

  16. #16
    TIGY avatar
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    ina33 ...

    Citiraj rvukovi2 prvotno napisa
    sad mi samo napisite tocne generalije o knjiyi, znaci

    AUTOR

    IZDAVACKA KUCA

    VLASNIK AUTORSKOG PRAVA

    MAIL ADRESU

    NASLOV KNJIGE I POGLAVLJA KOJEG BI TREBALO PREVESTI

    Autori knjige su:

    Alan E. Beer, M.D. , Julia Kantecki & Jane Reed

    ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

    For information about permission to reproduce selections from this book contact:
    permissions@babyfriendlybook.com

    Published by AJR Publishing:
    www.babyfriendlybook.com

    Naslov knjige: "Is Your Body Baby-Friendly ?"

    Printed in the United States of America

    ISBN: 0-9785078-0-0

    Except as permitted under the United States Copyright Act of 1976, no part of this publication may be reproduced or distributed
    in any form or by any means, or stored in a database or retrieval system, without prior written permission of the publisher .


    P.S. a za poglavlja, sad ću pogledati koja su najbitnija pa ti javim ... ... tnx rvukovi što si nam tako ažurna ...

  17. #17

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    Citiraj nela37 prvotno napisa
    Draga ina,
    baš sam razmišljala kaj da napišem, kad eto tebe, tako da samo mogu potpisati sve kaj si napisala

    p.s. izgleda da ću morati organizirati i jednu podgrupu imunološke kave
    tigy
    i ja sam razmišljala, razmišljala što da pametno napišem kad eto ine33 s par rečenica koje rekoše sve... i ja sam za imunološku kavu Tigy skidam ti kapu do poda za svaku vrijednu informaciju koju podijeliš s nama - imunološkom " siročadi " stalno škicam tvoj blog da vidim ima li kakvih lijepih novosti u vezi tebe

  18. #18
    TIGY avatar
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    nela37 ...

    uh, cure nisam mislila da nam sve to treba, ali evo, lavina je krenula, hehe ...

  19. #19
    TIGY avatar
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    Citiraj ZO prvotno napisa
    Tigy skidam ti kapu do poda za svaku vrijednu informaciju koju podijeliš s nama - imunološkom " siročadi " stalno škicam tvoj blog da vidim ima li kakvih lijepih novosti u vezi tebe
    ZO, nema nikakvih novosti, trenutno sam u "stand by" poziciji ... ... nisam ništa puno pisala na blogu ...

    treba mi lova za imunoterapiju i odlazak u Njemačku pa radim, radim i radim ... hehehe ... skupljam nofčeke ...

    P.S. vidjela sam da mnoge cure još ne znaju puno o rep. imunologiji pa sam se odlučila za ovakvu temu, a naravno kad sve bude na hrv. jeziku neće više biti ni imunoloških pitanja i nadam se da će HR nacija napokon biti upućena u ovaj smjer medicine koji se uveliko provodi u svijetu ... ... eto, jesam ga, haha ...

  20. #20
    rvukovi2 avatar
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    ajaj nisam ja ažurna-nego je postalo frkovito tamo kod nas na ljetnim trudnicama pa sam jako često online i hvala za ove podatke.

    znači tko se javlja za prevođenje??

    Tko se javlja za lekturu??

  21. #21
    ina33 avatar
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    Javljam se kao stand-by za osobu koja bude prevodila s eng. na hrv., ako joj to uopće bude potrebno. Prevoditelj će imat najviše posla. Računam da će hrv. lektor imat ipak nešto manje, iako koji put ima više posla s redakturom i lekturom, nego s prevođenjem, ali ipak je onaj glavni posao i glavna "šljaka" tu prijevod - to nam fali.

  22. #22

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    draga Tigy, ne bojim se ja za našu naciju niti za nas ovdje prisutne suborke nego za naše zdravstvo i većinu medicinara koje drže glavu u pijesku što se tiče ovakvih pitanja - čast izuzecima, ali dok god treba ići toliko daleko ( a ti to najbolje znaš ) da čovjek pokuša sam sebi pomoći bojim se da puno nas neće moći doći do onoga što najviše želimo ( naravno ako je zaista uzrok problema imunologija poput NK stanica, HLA tipizacije na koju svi samo mašu rukom itd.itd. )

  23. #23
    rvukovi2 avatar
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    ma bude tu zaista dosta posla i sa lekturom jer bude svakojakih konstrukcija u prijevodu.

  24. #24
    TIGY avatar
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    Ja bi vam rado prevodila, ali .... hm , nikad mi nisu išli iz engleskog vremena, prošlost, sadašnjost, budućnost ...

    znači u kontekstu kužim o čemu je riječ ( what's the point ), ali glagoli su mi stvarno zbrda-zdola.

    Eto, ja vam "okačim" tekstove, a vi se dalje snađite, jel to OK ?! :?

    A jako bi voljela da i prokomentiramo, jer to je u biti i cilj svega ...

    Draga Zo , trenutno je u HR takva situacija, ali tješim se jer dolaze novi medicinski naraštaji ...

    A ako treba probit led - tu smo ...

  25. #25
    rvukovi2 avatar
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    ako biste vi samo ovakve isječke željele čitati na portalu, a ne poglavlja knige, onda ću ih ja prevesti-nije problem-toliko se mogu koncentrirati.

    evo za početak mogu prevesti ovaj koji je tigy ostavila+još jedan te veličine u kojem se govori o nečem konkretnom.

  26. #26

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    Tigy, u boj, u boj...probit ćemo što god treba...
    vidim da ti ingliš ipak ide
    komentirati ćemo naravno, to je sada jedini način da pomognemo jedni drugima, a to je opet bit svega... uh al sam promašila profesiju... baš me zanima da li bi mi ovakve stvari privukle pažnju da sam ginić, a da nemam ovakvih problema... ne mogu vjerovat da ih ovakve stvari baš ne zanimaju ili se jednostavno još ne žele petljati s tim - opet čast izuzecima
    ma ja to naravno subjektivno procjenjujem...bolje da zavežem

  27. #27
    TIGY avatar
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    super rvukovi tnx ... ... ZO u boj, u boj ...

    zapravo, neka svaka od nas da mali doprinos i poneki prijevod i imat ćemo materijal za portal ... :D

    Evo malo o Dr. Beer-u kao autoru knjige : http://www.babyfriendlybook.com/bios.htm
    Dr Alan E. Beer

    Dr Alan Beer is a world-renowned physician and scientist who has spent much of his academic life analyzing the relationship between the immune system and reproductive health. In recent years, he has dedicated himself to helping couples with infertility, IVF or implantation failure and recurrent miscarriage. His research into the causes of unexplained pregnancy loss continues today, as does his quest to identify optimum treatment protocols.

    In 1962, he received his medical degree from Indiana University School of Medicine. This was followed by a residency in Immunology and Genetics and a fellowship in Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Pennsylvania. It was here that Dr Beer became fascinated by genetics and immunology and conducted experiments that were to lead to a major breakthrough in the treatment of reproductive failure. He noticed that when related males and females were mated to produce an inbred strain, the pregnancies were often rejected and the female soon became infertile. This phenomenon made him wonder about possible explanations for infertility in humans.

    In 1971, he was board certified by the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology. He then became a faculty member of the University of Pennsylvania, followed by the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School at Dallas, and then the University of Michigan. An appointment as Chairman of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the University of Michigan Medical School followed in 1979. It was here that he treated a couple with seven miscarriages. By then Dr Beer was convinced of the significance of natural killer cells in pregnancy and had devised a pioneering form of therapy to control their activity. Within a year, his first "immune patient" had delivered a healthy boy.

    Dr Beer joined the Chicago Medical School in 1987, where he accepted a joint appointment as Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology and Professor of Microbiology and Immunology. He subsequently established the School's Reproductive Immunology Clinic where he continued to specialize in treating couples that had repeatedly failed with conventional approaches and in the majority of cases, made it possible for them to have babies.

    In 1988, he extended his care to those undergoing assisted reproduction and treated a couple who had failed to carry to term after 20 IVF attempts. Within a year, the woman had delivered healthy twins. From then on he saw every IVF couple no matter how difficult their case, "as long as there was hope."

    In addition to handling an ever-growing patient caseload, he has contributed to many books, monographs and scientific articles concerning the impact of the immune system on fertility, and has presented his findings at national and international medical conferences in Australia, Europe and South America. By sharing new knowledge with scientists from allied and interrelated fields, progress in the study of the immunological and genetic aspects of the reproductive process can be advanced. For this reason, he has always been keen to promote cooperation between laboratories involved in experimental and clinical studies.

    As well as being a past Chairman of the National Institute of Health Study Section on Human Embryology and Development, Dr Beer has been involved in other study sections involving pregnancy and human development. He has also served as Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Reproductive Immunology and was a founding member and past President of the American Society for Reproductive Immunology. He is now a senior member of the Council for the International Society for the Immunology of Reproduction.

    In 2003, Dr Beer established The Alan E. Beer Center for Reproductive Immunology and Genetics for the evaluation and treatment of couples with immune-related problems, and in 2005, he opened his own specialist testing laboratory facility in Los Gatos, California.
    http://www.babyfriendlybook.com/bios-epilogue.htm

    EPILOGUE
    Alan E. Beer, M.D.
    1937 - 2006


    Dr Beer sadly passed away on May 1st , 2006 at the age of 69, just weeks before this book came to print – a bittersweet ending to a powerful and influential life. It was a twist of fate that he saw the final draft of this book, but never held the published copy in his hand. We know he was so proud of the completed text, and thankful that his life's work had been so faithfully documented. During his final days, he felt great peace knowing that the book would stand as an important part of his legacy.

    In early 2006, Dr Beer was proud to announce that the laboratory he had always dreamed of was completed and staffed by a team of world-leading experts. In addition, patient numbers at his clinic had virtually doubled since it opened in 2003. Yet despite an ever-increasing workload, he never felt compelled to retire, or even rest. When he said, "I will die at my desk," he meant it. Right until the end, he dedicated himself to his lifelong mission of providing much-needed explanations, effective treatments and genuine hope for those suffering the misery of failure and loss. It was Dr Beer's ultimate achievement that couples like these – wherever in the world they live – are still able to receive help through his pioneering program today.

    He will be greatly missed by the many thousands of patients and doctors that have been touched by his dedicated soul and pioneering mind. Never again will there be such a valiant warrior or such a thoughtful visionary for the reproductive immunology cause. Never again, will there be one so passionately devoted to his patients. As a final poignant note, here are some words from President Abraham Lincoln with which Dr Beer identified, and would have wanted to share:

    "If I were to try to read, much less to answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for any other business. I do the very best I know – the very best I can; and I mean to keep on doing so until the end If the end brings me out all right, then what is said against me won't matter. If the end brings me out wrong, then ten angels swearing I was right would make no difference."
    Alan E. Beer:

    "For years now, doctors have dealt with recurrent miscarriages saying, "You were unlucky this time", "It's God's will" and "The body knows when a baby needs to be rejected." Others simply believe that it is just bad lack when miscarriages occur or IVF treatments fail time after time.

    In the 1980s, it became clear to me that products of an activated immune system could damage the placenta and cause miscarriage, as well as damage the embryo and cause implantation failure. Natural killer cells, which help to keep the body from developing cancer, can over-populate the uterus or exist at too high levels within the blood stream. These cells then go overboard, killing the embryo or interfering with the endocrine system that produces the hormones that are essential for pregnancy. This response can often be associated with complications for both the mother and her baby if the pregnancy occurs without treatment to suppress the activity of the immune system.

    My research has also taught me among many other things, that there are couples who are an unlucky genetic match for each other, who produce embryos that are misinterpreted by the immune system as foreign objects, or even cancer cells. The problem eventually worsens making the uterus behave like a "den of lions" and every pregnancy attempt fails.

    If autoimmunity is damaging the baby, the same autoimmunity can damage the thyroid gland, the insulin producing cells of the pancreas and the serotonin producing cells which live all over the body. Such conditions certainly can be potentially damaging to the woman's own health.

    My research has shown there are five categories of immune problems that can cause infertility, IVF failure and pregnancy loss. With proper testing and appropriate therapies to modulate the immune system, these problems can be successfully overcome."

  28. #28
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    http://www.babyfriendlybook.com/index.htm

    WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING

    "Finally, a clear message that recurrent IVF failure, infertility and loss can be categorized and treated. This book is a wonderful resource for all those struggling with recurrent failure and loss."

    Christo Zouves, M.D., Founder and Director of the Zouves Fertility Center and author of Expecting Miracles: The Path of Hope from Infertility to Parenthood.



    "This is a wonderful, rich in contents book for practitioners working in reproductive medicine. The news of Dr Beer 's death was very sad but we are proud of him who leaves us such a fortune like this book."

    Koji Koyama, M.D., President of International Society of Reproductive Immunology



    "This book is outstanding. I think Dr. Beer goes a long way toward making complex ideas understandable for lay readers."

    Russell Roby M.D., Founder of the Texan Allergy Center



    "This book certainly makes a complex subject reader-friendly from a personal perspective."

    Zita West, Founder and Director of the Zita West Clinic and author of Fertility and Conception.



    "If these scientists are right, immunology could be reproductive medicine's next frontier, helping to treat distressing conditions that blight the lives of many couples. This will be the new area of infertility treatment for this century."

    Kelton P. Tremellen, M.D., of the University of Adelaide, Australia.


    "Well thought out and researched and an important addition to the literature regarding reproductive health...an intriguing and compelling insight into this critical area of science."

    Noah Chalfin at the Center for Ethics and Toxics in California.

  29. #29
    ina33 avatar
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    Ajde mogu i ja ako se radi samo o isječcima jedan, uz malo dulji rok od tipa 10 dana ako je to OK. Vi odaberite koji - ja isto predlažem kao temu nešto malo konkretnije o reproduktivnoj imunologiji. Ili neki veći chunk pa da se podijelimo. A o komentiravanju tekstova, meni se čini da smo teško tu mi ravnopravni komentatori kad se većina toga o čemu on piše na većini klinika u Hrv. ne provodi, možemo samo slušati iskustva i tuđe priče....

  30. #30
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    ina33 ...

    Gle, upravo iz tog razloga bitni su komentari jer će se sve više uz opetovane spontane pobačaje i IVF neuspjehe u HR klinikama morati početi primjenjivati odgovarajuća imuno-terapija. Bitno je ljudima probuditi svijest da ipak nešto postoji što im može pomoći, a uvijek će biti onih koji će si to financijski i moći priuštiti. Samo da napomenem da je jedna doza IVIga cca. 6.000 - 7.000 kn, ovisi o količini ( gr ) koju doktor odredi prema pacijenticinoj kilaži. Također, možda u bližoj budućnosti budemo imale mogućnost da i u domovini napravimo LAD test ( Leukocyte Antibody detection ) te možda i LIT terapiju. Sve ovisi o HR stručnjacima i mladim naraštajima sa medicinskog fakulteta. Možda i mi imamo nekog tajnog dr. Beer-a ... 8) , a ni ne znamo... uvijek sam bila optimistična, hehe ... Također tu su i ostale terapije tipa Humira, Enbrel, Dexamethason, Heparin, Baby-Aspirin, Lovenox, Fish-oil (omega3) itd .. itd ... Po dr. Beer-u postoji 5 kategorija imuno-problema, a to su ( evo ukratko i citat ):

    Categories of Immune Problems Return to Contents

    Our research shows that there are five categories of immune problems that can cause pregnancy loss, IVF failures and infertility, listed below. For further details, please read Consequences of Recurrent Pregnancy Loss: An Introduction to Categories 1 - 5 Immune Problems, or Overview of Reproductive Immunology.

    1. Category

    1. DQ alpha matching in the couple. This results in a lack of blocking antibody to pregnancy, and the pregnancy fails.

    2. Category

    2. Antibodies to Phospholipids. These are the glue molecules for implantation and placentation.

    3. Category

    3. These women have developed antibodies to the baby's DNA or DNA breakdown products and this problem is reflected by a positive Anti-nuclear antibody test (ANA). This is often with a speckled pattern. We also advise that women have testing to double-stranded DNA, single-stranded DNA, polynucleotides and histones.

    4. Category

    4. This is a group of women with anti-sperm antibodies or antibodies to the phospholipid ethanolamine.

    5. Category

    5. Elevated CD 56+ Natural Killer Cells and elevated CD 19+5+ cells.

    The testing that typically defines this category are

    1. Immunophenotype
    2. NK Assay
    3. Antibodies to Hormones and Neurotransmitters
    http://repro-med.net/intro.php#top
    http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/immunologysupport/

    Eto, bilo bi dobro za početak prevesti ove kategorije imuno-problema da možemo dalje nastaviti sa komentiranjem.

  31. #31
    ina33 avatar
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    Uh, Tigač, mogu i ja to prevest, al ću se bogami morat savjetovat sa sestrom molekularnim biologom jer tu je svaka druga riječ - stručna. Samo neću to moć baš tako brzo. Koja će nam onda bit logistika - kome šaljemo prevedeno - rvukovi2? Super za tvoj optimizam mladosti . Meni se čini da teško da bi netko u HRV mogao solirati s ovako skupim terapijama, u sustavu u kojem nema novaca ni za osnovne stvari, uz društveno okruženje i MPO percepciju koja još uvijek postoji, a još LIT terapija koja je i vani kontroverzna, ne znam. Novac je glavni problem u toj priči, plus te struje koje smatraju da to nije znanstveno dokazano, još mi pacijenti imamo jak drive jer nam se radi o životnom pitanju, a nisam sigurna koliko bi naši dokovi za to bili zaintersirani. Ma, ja sam uvijek ko' ona dva starca u Muppet show-u, staro čangrizalo, na mladosti svijet ostaje ko' što i naš narod kaže. Zato ću ja to lijepo pokušat prevest, ako se slažete, samo kome onda da to šaljem?

  32. #32
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    Evo ovdje je najbolje opisano svih 5 kategorija imuno-problema,
    pa ako netko može neka prevede: http://repro-med.net/info/cat1-5.php

    There are five categories of immune problems that can cause pregnancy loss, IVF failures and infertility. Category 1 is the least severe, while Category 5 is the most severe. Without treatment, a woman with Category 1 problems can experience recurrent pregnancy loss, which may activate other categories of immune problems from Category 2, 3, 4 or 5.

    The following documents, tables and figures explain the immune problems of categories 1 - 5, and are an introduction to the treatments involved and the success rates of parenthood.

    Function of HLA Antigens



    All cells of the body have on their surfaces proteins or peptides called HLA (human leukocyte antigens). These are depicted in the figure below. These antigens serve as antennae or "fly paper" that recognize and capture foreign interlopers--such as germs, viruses or cancer cells--that get into our bodies. With the new captured information, these cells signal the immune system to make antibodies (IgM, IgG and IgA) against the germ, virus or cancer cell.

    slika 1: http://repro-med.net/info/pics/wbc.jpg
    slika 2: http://repro-med.net/info/pics/germ.jpg

    HLA Antigens: serve as antennae to recognize foreign germs or viruses entering the body.
    Communicate this information to the white blood cells to initiate an immune response.


    A pregnancy must also be recognized as a foreign being (father puts HLA antigens on the placenta that are different from those of the mother). When this applies, the mother makes an antibody called a blocking antibody that attaches to the placenta and makes it look to her like a "wolf in sheep's clothing." The antibody she makes in this circumstance does not kill; it protects the baby and makes the placental cells grow faster.

    When the father's HLA antigens placed on the placenta are too similar to the mother's HLA antigens, she does not make the antibody. In this circumstance the baby is not protected, the placental cells are not stimulated to grow and the baby dies. She interprets the pregnancy as "altered self" (i.e., a cancer cell). Therefore, when the cells of the baby die, she activates other immune problems from Category 2, 3, 4 or 5 where the natural killer cells that she was born with are now misinterpreting the baby as a cancer. This occurs in couples sharing DQ alpha HLA antigens.

    Immune Response to Pregnancy (Alloimmunity)

    * Function: to alert the mother to react to the baby as a baby, not as an infection.
    * Consequence: blocking antibody production (crossmatch positive by flow cytometry).

    Immune Response to Infection (Infectious Immunity)

    * Consequences: antibody production (gamma globulins) that destroys the germ or virus and remains in the body as a memory if the germ or virus returns.

    Category 1 Immunological Problems

    HLA Compatibility as a Cause for Recurrent Spontaneous Pregnancy Loss


    The HLA antigens on the placenta cells made by the father are called HLA-G. When the couple shares DQ alpha antigens in common, the G molecule put on the placental cells by the father is too similar to the G molecule that the woman's father put on her placenta to sustain her in her mother's uterus.

    As a result, she does not make the blocking antibody, the baby dies, and her immune system recognizes the placenta as "altered self" (i.e., a cancer cell) and category 1 problems move on to worsen to categories 2, 3, 4 and 5 (see diagram below).

    Consequences


    1. Inadequate blocking antibody formation.
    2. Ineffective camouflage of placenta.
    3. Placental cells fail to grow and divide.
    4. Death of placental cells.
    5. Activation of category 2, 3, 4 and 5 immune problems.

    slika 3: http://repro-med.net/info/pics/cat1a.jpg

    HLA-G: Message sent from father to stimulate blocking antibody.

    Blocking Antibody: Protects and stimulates the growth of placental cells.

    Placental Cell Death: Consequences of low blocking antibody.


    Category 2 Immunological Problems

    Antiphospholipid Antibodies


    Repeated miscarriages, IVF failures, endometriosis and anything that causes tissue injury can lead to the formation of antibodies to phospholipids. These are called antiphospholipid antibodies. Phospholipids are important molecules in the membranes of all cells, and antibodies to these important molecules can derange cell function, cause inflammation and can even cause blood to clot too quickly.

    Many patients with autoimmune diseases also have tissue injury and make antiphospholipid antibodies. This is how antiphospholipid antibodies were discovered. Certain patients with lupus made antibodies that caused their blood to clot too quickly. This antibody is now called the "lupus anticoagulant antibody." When the test for this antibody is positive, most peole think they have lupus. However, in our experience, the majority of patients with this antibody have produced it because of infertility, IVF failures or recurrent pregnancy losses, not because they have lupus or other autoimmune diseases.

    In our experience 22% of women with recurrent pregnancy losses have antiphospholipid antibodies. The incidence of this problem increases in women by 15% with each pregnancy that is lost. It is a significant consequence of infertility, implantation failures and recurrent pregnancy losses.

    There are six different phospholipid molecules that have very important functions in cell membranes and intracellular organelles. The phospholipid molecules are

    1. Cardiolipin
    2. Ethanolamine
    3. Glycerol
    4. Inositol
    5. Phosphatidic Acid
    6. Serine

    Cell death or cell injury can lead to the production of antibodies to all or any one of these molecules. These antibodies disrupt cell functions and increase the clotting speed of blood. This can cause chaos early in pregnancy.

    The antibodies first produced are called gamma globulin M (IgM). These antibodies circulate in the blood and protect the blood environment. As the problem get worse, the IgM antibodies mature and produce gamma globulin G (IgG). These primarily in the lymphatic system and the lymph nodes. IgG antibodies go on to produce gamma globulin A (IgA), as the immunity completes its development. The IgG antibodies live in and protect the organs, including the reproductive tract.

    As shown in the diagram, Serine and Ethanolamine are phospholipids that serve as glue molecules in allowing the placenta to be securely attached to the uterus during implantation. They also allow the cytotrophoblast to change into a new cell, the syncytiotrophoblast, which begins to feed the baby by transporting nutrition from the mother's blood into the baby.

    Antibodies to these phospholipids prevent secure attachment or often totally prevent attachment. In addition, antibodies to these phospholipids prevent the cytophoblast from forming into the syncytiotrophoblast, which is needed to feed the baby. We have found that when this problem is diagnosed there is now a reason that is 97% effective in causing pregnancies to fail early.

    Category 3 Immunological Problems

    Positive Antinuclear Antibody (ANA)


    Category 3 immune problems occur in 22% of women with recurrent pregnancy losses and nearly 50% of women with infertility and IVF failures. Women with this problem make antibodies to DNA, or DNA breakdown products in the embryo or in the pregnancy. These antibodies form first in the blood as IgM. As the problem gets worse they appear as IgG and live in the lymphatic system and lymph nodes. With more losses they form IgA antibodies which have their home and action in the organs including the uterus. These antibodies can be against pure double stranded DNA (ds DNA), single stranded DNA (ss DNA), or smaller molecules called polynucleotides and histones that make up the single strands (see diagram).

    Consequences

    * Antinuclear Antibody (ANA) positive, speckled pattern.
    * Autoantibody to DNA leads to inflammation in the placenta.
    * Autoimmune disease screening in the woman is negative (No evidence of lupus or rheumatoid arthritis).

    A blood test determines the presence of antibodies to polynucleotides, histones and DNA. This process involves running 27 different tests on a sample of blood.

    The presence of antibodies is also tested for by doing the ANA test. This is a less sensitive test but one that many doctors have already done on their patients before we ever see them.

    The test is reported as a titer and a pattern. Any titer above 1:40 is significant. The titers can get into the thousands such as 1:2,500. This simply means that the test is positive when the blood serum is diluted many times.

    The pattern is reported as homogeneous, nucleolar or speckled:

    * Homogeneous: the antibody is to the ss DNA or ds DNA.
    * Nucleolar: the antibody is directed to the polynucleotides.
    * Speckled: the antibody is directed against the histones.

    Some women demonstrate a mixed pattern of speckled/homogeneous.

    These same antibodies appear positive in women with lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's disease and other autoimmune diseases. They are usually in high titers. Pregnancy losses, infertility and IVF failures cause the titers to be much lower and a low positive titer does not mean that you have or are getting an autoimmune disease; however, this is ruled out during the testing.

    In women with autoimmune diseases these antibodies cause inflammation in joints and organs. In women with no autoimmune diseases but a positive antibody, the antibody causes inflammation around the embryo at the time of implantation or in the placenta after implantation. This inflammation is exactly the same as occurs if you get a splinter under your fingernail. The tissue around the splinter gets hot, red and swollen and it happens quickly.


    Category 4 Immunological Problems

    Autoimmune Response to Sperm Antigen


    Ten percent of women with infertility, implantation failures and recurrent pregnancy losses have produced antibodies to sperm. When this happens, a couple is unable to conceive normally, even if they had no problems with conception in the past. The antibody to sperm is often associated with antiphospholipid antibodies to the phospholipids serine and ethanolamine. Antibodies to sperm should be suspected

    * if women have antibodies to serine and or ethanolamine,
    * in women with poor post coital tests (sperm are dead or not moving in the cervical mucus), and
    * in women whose spouses have antisperm antibodies.

    Being exposed to antibody coated sperm dispensed by the male seems to encourage women to make antisperm antibodies on their own. When antisperm antibodies develop, they will inactivate or attack sperm from the husband and any donor (i.e., they are not partner specific). Testing for antisperm antibodies in women is done from a blood sample. There are more than five different methods to determine if antisperm antibodies are present. The most sensitive and reliable methods are

    1. immunobead binding antisperm antibody assay, and
    2. flow cytometry detection of antisperm antibodies.

    The presence of antisperm antibodies in women strongly predicts that she will also have category 5 immune problems.

    slikica: http://repro-med.net/info/pics/sperm.jpg

    Consequences

    * Sperm antibody test positive.
    * Sperm antibody positive by flow cytometer.
    * Couple is unable to conceive normally.
    * Multiple failed pregnancy through IVF, IUI, GIFT or ZIFT.

    Category 5 Immunological Problems

    * Introduction
    * Chapter 1: CD 56+ Natural Killer Cells
    * Chapter 2: CD 19+ 5+ B Cells (1)
    * Chapter 3: CD 19+ 5+ B Cells (2)



    Introduction

    There are 30 different types of lymphocytes (CD designations) that make up the immune system. A balanced functioning of these white blood cells keeps a person healthy. Two of these cell types can cause infertility, implantation failures and miscarriages (see diagram below). Women are born with these cell types. In some women, they increase in numbers and activity and result in reproductive failures.

    Types of white blood cells include the following:

    1. TH-2 ("T Helper 2")
    The response is a balanced correct response during pregnancy (Category 1).

    2. TH-1 ("T Helper 1")
    The response is a cyto-toxic autoimmune response that can lead to infertility, implantation failure and miscarriage (categories 2, 3, 4 and 5).

    3. CD3, CD4, CD8
    Control production of blocking antibody response; a correct response.

    4. CD19+ 5+
    Produce antiphospholipid antibodies (Category 2) and anti-DNA and histone antibodies (Category 3). It also produces antisperm antibodies.

    5. CD56+, CD57+
    Are natural killer cells.

    Please see A Guide to Interpreting the Results of the Reproductive Immunophenotype for more information on lymphocytes.

    Chapter 1: CD 56+ Natural Killer Cells

    Problem


    1. Increase in number 2-12% normal. Above 12% see infertility and pregnancy losses.
    2. Increase in cytotoxicity in NK assay. Cytotoxicity above 15% at 50:1 can damage the embryo.
    3. These cells usually reside in the blood; however, in 2% of women they are so activated they live in the uterus. This is determined by an endometrial biopsy on day 26 of a normal cycle and by the TJ-6 test which finds women whose Natural Killer Cells have become the most activated.
    4. They produce toxic Cytokines (TH-1 cytokines) including Tumor Necrosis Factor (TNF) Alpha.

    Consequences

    1. Prevent implantation.
    2. Cause miscarriages by damaging the placental cells, causing decidual necrosis, damage the yolk sac.
    3. Later in pregnancy they cause slowness of the heart rate of the baby, cause an irregular shaped gestational sac that is smaller than normal and amniotic fluid volume that is too small.
    4. They induce subchorionic hemorrhages which can cause spotting, bleeding and can be seen easily on ultrasound.
    5. In some women they can affect the DNA in the eggs so that fragmentation, slow cell division, arrested cell division and poor quality embryos are seen.


    Chapter 2: CD 19+5+ B Cells (1)

    Problem


    1. Normal numbers are 2% - 10%. Women with problems have increases in cell numbers above 10%.
    2. These cells produce antibodies to hormones necessary for pregnancies to develop safely. These antihormone antibodies are against estradiol, progesterone, and Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG).
    3. These antibodies lower hormone levels and lead to luteal phase deficiencies, slow rising HCG levels when pregnant, poor stimulation during ovulation induction cycles and poor lining development by ultrasound evaluation.

    Consequences

    1. Resistant ovary syndrome or premature ovarian failure. Day 3 FSH and Estradiol levels are too high.
    2. Poor egg quality in IVF. Fewer eggs recovered, slow division following IVG, fragmentation of embryos, poor quality embryos, fragile when frozen and thawed, multiple failed transfer cycles with no positive BHCG or slow rising BHCG.
    3. Lining fails to develop adequate thickness, adequate layers or adequate blood flow to zone three.


    Chapter 3: CD 19+5+ B Cells (2)

    Problem


    1. Normal numbers are 2 - 10%.. Women with problems have increases in cell numbers above 10%.
    2. Produce antibodies to neurotransmitters, including serotonin, endorphins and enkaphlans.
    3. These antibodies cause the ovaries to be resistant to stimulation, cause a poor lining to develop, interfere with the muscle development of the uterus, and prevent blood flow to the lining of the uterus and muscle at the time of implantation.
    4. These antibodies can cause depression, fibromyalgia, sleep disorders, increasing PMS symptoms and night sweats.

    [/b]Consequences[/b]

    1. Follicles stimulate poorly and require heavy doses of fertility drugs to awaken.
    2. Endometrial lining is thin; it rarely gets above 7 mm.
    3. Three zones of the endometrial lining do not develop.
    4. Blood vessels do not enter zone three.
    5. Uterine smooth muscle remains quiet and does not contract three times in two minutes.
    6. Eggs are of poor quality, fertilize in vitro with difficulty, divide slowly or incompletely, are low grade embryos and embryos fragment.
    7. Women are depressed, sleep poorly, panic easily and experience symptoms of achiness and fibromyalgia.
    Ina33, ako ti ovo ne bude komplicirano bilo bi super.
    I naravno, pošalješ našoj rvukovi na e-mail ...

    I samo optimistično ...

    Nikad nemoj razmišljati o preprekama, jer kad bi tako razmišljali onda čemu sve ovo,
    nije ni vani sve bajno i ne cvjetaju ruže, a ipak se sve provodi kako treba.
    Mislim da svaki pacijent zaslužuje ispravnu i odgovarajuću terapiju, kako u svijetu, tako i u HR. 8)

  33. #33
    dee-dee avatar
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    Citiraj ina33 prvotno napisa
    Meni se čini da teško da bi netko u HRV mogao solirati s ovako skupim terapijama, u sustavu u kojem nema novaca ni za osnovne stvari, uz društveno okruženje i MPO percepciju koja još uvijek postoji, a još LIT terapija koja je i vani kontroverzna, ne znam. Novac je glavni problem u toj priči, plus te struje koje smatraju da to nije znanstveno dokazano, još mi pacijenti imamo jak drive jer nam se radi o životnom pitanju, a nisam sigurna koliko bi naši dokovi za to bili zaintersirani
    Iskreno za LIT terapiju ne treba nista posebno od opreme, jer to je puko izdvajanje bijelih krvnih zrnaca i obicna potkozna vakcina. Citav proces traje 3 sata - od uzimanja krvi do vakcine.

    Ja sam je radila u Mexicu na "klinici" za MPO (stavicu slike na blog kada ga otvorim ), koja lici na sve osim na savremnu kliniku.

    Cijena postupka je bila 600$ po imunizaciji.
    Sto se tice etike, mislim da bi tu odluku trebalo ostaviti pacijentima na volju, jer je isto kao i sa MPO metodama - neki su ZA, neki protiv.

    Mene samo ljuti to sto doktori (i ovde, ne samo na nasim prostorima) zatvaraju oci pred ociglednim cinjenicama i rezultatima, jer ako zena nakon 14, 15, 16 spontanih pobacaja uz ovu terapiju iznese trudnocu i rodi zdravu bebu - e pa stvarno ne znam trebaju li bolji dokazi o ucinku terapije.

  34. #34
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    dee-dee draga naša ... ... ti si mi hodajući dokaz ...

    voljela bi kad bi nam malo više opisala postupak imuno-terapije koji si prošla,
    kako bi približila našoj populaciji da to zapravo i nije nešto nedefinirano,
    već točno po programu i uputama kako treba sve uzimati i na taj način doći do cilja.

    I naravno da je sve stvar izbora, također mislim da su pacijenti ti koji odlučuju o svome tijelu.

    P.S. jedva čekam slikice i tvoj blog ...

  35. #35
    dee-dee avatar
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    Hocu draga Tigy, samo da mi prestane ova spotting i da cujem srceko, sve cu napisati do detalja
    Necu izostaviti ne strahote letenja i kvarova aviona

  36. #36
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    Uh, viiiiiiibrrrrrrrrrrraaam za srčeko ....

    Znaš, drugačije je ipak curama kad im netko opiše taj imuno-proces iz vlastitog iskustva,
    nego kad im ja kao vanzemaljaclinkam tamo "nekog" dr. Beer-a i pokušavam objasnit o čemu on to priča.

    Inače te ne bi gnjavila, trudnice naša, samo ti uživaj i mazi bušicu ...





    P.S. kvarovi aviona ..... :shock:

  37. #37
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    htjedoh reći ..... kao vanzemaljac linkam ... ( lapsus ... )

  38. #38
    ina33 avatar
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    Uh, narasto citat . Nema frke, probat ću ja to Tigy, ali će mi trebat nekih 10-20 dana, kad stignem - svaki vikend sam na moru, a preko tjedna uređujem kupaonu, to nam je sad postalo hitno jer smo predali molbu za posvojenje pa ne možemo više odgađat - neugodno mi je kad mi dođe komisija da mi takvu kupaonu vidi - nismo je mijenjali otkako smo se uselili u stan .

    Dee-dee, živa iskustva su uvijek najinteresantnija - ono, teorija u praksi.

  39. #39
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    He-he ... ... to je prosto-prošireni citat ...

    Ma šta je to za tebe ina ... peace of cake ..
    Samo ti na miru prevedi kad stigneš ( nema žurbe ), ti znaš svoje prioritete ...
    bitno da je sve kompletno prevedeno kako bi se mogli točno usredotočiti na svaku od 5 kategorija imuno-problema.

    I naravno, razumijem našu dee-dee... i njezine strahove i neizvjesnost.
    Pacijentice sa imuno-problemima dodatno su osjetljivije i svoju trudnoću još ne doživljavaju
    kao zdravo za gotovo, sve dok ne budu imale baby u naručju. Težak je put kojim su prošle.

    Zato draga dee-dee, piši kad stigneš, a mi do tad vibramo do neba za srčeko ...

  40. #40
    ina33 avatar
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    BTW, i ja se veselim blogu :D !

  41. #41
    dee-dee avatar
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    Hvala drage moje

  42. #42
    rvukovi2 avatar
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    ina-onda budeš ti prevela? super jer drage moje meni se bliži dan D i sva sam ko na iglama.
    sve je spremno za bebu pa čak i torba za rodilište i sad samo osluškujem )
    pošaljite meni kad bude gotovo.

  43. #43
    ina33 avatar
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    Ajme, rvukovi2, zar već !!!! Nema frke - budem, ali vjerojatno najranije kroz nekih 20 dan, trebat će to neko pogledat i stručan, tj. makar stručniji od mene, da nije nešto fulano, mislim da imam doma i neki medicnski eng-hrv rječnik, ali nisam više 100% sigurna jer sam davno ispala iz prevođenja i radim nešto stoto. Onda šaljem tebi na mail?

  44. #44
    TIGY avatar
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    rvukovi drži se, bebica samo što nije stigla ....

    ina33, ja znam da ćeš ti to full stručno prevesti bez ikakve greškice, baš ste mi supach ekipa ....

  45. #45
    Sanja79 avatar
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    Curke, mogla bih vam ja pomoci ali mene treba dobro izlektorisati jer "ne znam" hrvatski... Nemojte me pogresno razumjeti, ipak je moj maternji S-H-B (BiH)... A voljela bih pomoci... Inace sam prevodilica engleskog jezika, pa, eto, ako vam stvarno treba- mogu vam pomoci. Naravno, dajte neke normalne rokove jer radim radnim danima od 8 do 5... Ok? A i trebace mi pomoc u vezi sa nekim tezim strucnim izrazima...

  46. #46
    TIGY avatar
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    Sanja79 super ... :D !!!

    Bit će još tekstova, a ti ako želiš izaberi za početak nešto iz uvodnog dijela ...



    Curke, najbolje ste .... !!!

  47. #47
    ina33 avatar
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    OK, da ne bude zbunjole, ja imam ovaj zadnji gore prosto-prošireni citat od Tigač koji počinje sa paragrafom:

    "There are five categories of immune problems that can cause pregnancy loss, IVF failures and infertility. Category 1 is the least severe, while Category 5 is the most severe. Without treatment, a woman with Category 1 problems can experience recurrent pregnancy loss, which may activate other categories of immune problems from Category 2, 3, 4 or 5."

    Ja bih to mogla za nekih cca 20 dana, ako bude prije - super.

    Tigy, kod nas bi se u firmi reklo 'I love your evangelism" u smislu kad se hvali nečije oduševljenje . Ja, rođeni skeptik, dodajem - nadam se da će to nekome pomoći, a ne odmoći i ukomirat ga dokraja - jer ako se nema sredstava za ići vani, nema baš neke koristi kad se ni osnovne stvari kako ti kažeš ne priznaju a la HLA tipizacija, ali da možda stvarno bude koristilo novim pacijentsko-doktorskim 'generacijama koje rastu', čiji je problem neplodnost.

  48. #48
    Sanja79 avatar
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    Samo mi javite sta da prevodim, please... Tigy sam poslala svoju e-mail adresu, pa navalite dok sam raspolozena

  49. #49

    Datum pristupanja
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    ovakve ekipe nema na kugli zemaljskoj....

  50. #50
    alec avatar
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    cure, . zakon ste.

    jedva čekam prijevode. možda mi bude što jasnije :/ .

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