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Tema: Je li ovo još uvijek dojenje?

  1. #1
    Linda avatar
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    Početno Je li ovo još uvijek dojenje?

    Uopće mi to pitanje do nedavno nije padalo na pamet, a već duuugo smo na tome da Linda cica doslovce 10-20 sekundi dnevno, nekad možda i manje. Povuče jednom- dvaput, pa onda drugu i to je to. Normalno da se od toga ne može proizvesti novog mlijeka, ali nisam puno razbijala glavu, dok Lili sama nije zaključila da nema više mlijeka. I stvarno, ni kap više ne mogu istisnuti, ni mali najmanji bijeli trag. Nema! Izgleda da smo postupno prestale, a nismo toga bile niti svjesne. I kaj sad? Ona i dalje povuče u prazno dvaput dnevno. Je li to uopće dojenje?

  2. #2
    kloklo avatar
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    To sam se i ja pitala ljetos kad je Leona imala još kraće probe, po njenim riječima, samo da provjeri jel ima mlijeka za Juricu

    I to je zaista bilo to - ne cica više, samo ih zna pomaziti i izljubiti

    Poljubi svoju veliku djevojčicu i baš sam sretna zbog još jednog nježnog i neosjetnog prestanka

  3. #3
    Linda avatar
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    Znači, stvarno smo prestale? A ja sva ponosna najavila kako se uskoro pridružujemo trgodišnjacima... izgleda da ipak nismo dočekale treći ročkas.
    A srce moje, bila je tako slatka kad je pristala na to da će dijeliti s bebom cicu (po uzoru na Megi, koja je bila tako dobra i pristala dijeliti kumu ).

  4. #4
    Maja avatar
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    Pa možda opet krene kad rodiš, ako ipak provjerava dvaput dnevno. A sad će i kolostrum krenuti.

  5. #5
    Linda avatar
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    Citiraj Maja prvotno napisa
    Pa možda opet krene kad rodiš, ako ipak provjerava dvaput dnevno. A sad će i kolostrum krenuti.
    Hm, možda... ali moram priznati da me frka tandema, iako sam do sad normalno na to računala. Sad mi paralelno s tugom radi "početka kraja", na pamet pada da iskoritim ipak ovu situaciju da izbjegnem tandem.

  6. #6
    Linda avatar
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    Da me se krivo ne shvati, tandem mi je nešto predivno i prirodno i bila sam ponosna što mi se pruža prilika, ali s druge strane me strah kako ću fizički uspjeti stići zadovoljiti sve emotivne i tjelesne potrebe troje djece, s tim da su dvoje na cici, a tu je još i sto drugih obaveza, a trebam i na svoje zdravlje (tjelesno i mentalno) misliti.. :/
    Cure tandemuše, može koja riječ ohrabrenja?

  7. #7
    Maja avatar
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    Pa za početak, ne trebaš se opće sramiti toga što ne želiš tandem, nije on obaveza. Razumijem da je osjećaj da se na ovom forumu tandem u najmanju ruku očekuje, ali nadam se da ćemo se svi skupa jednom izdići iznad toga Dakle, ako ga ne želiš, nemoj, prosto ko pasulj. S tim da imaš dovoljno vremena za odlučivati, ne moraš to danas.

  8. #8
    Osoblje foruma leonisa avatar
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    Linda

    saljem vam puno pusa


    inace i mene muci to isto, odnosno od koliko isisavanja se MOZE napraviti novo mlijeko.
    ona vec 2mj iskljucvo isisava, ne zna istovremeno disat na nos i dojiti, ali mlijeka jos ima, cak i osjetim ponekad nelagodu "prepunjenost". kolko je taj pocetak kraja kod vas trajao? ok, ti imas ovdje i trudnocu i pad produkcije radi nje, ali opet...koliko?

  9. #9
    Linda avatar
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    Leo, i ja sam bila sigurna da od par srkova može napraviti novih par za sljedeći dan, a onda se opet zna dogoditi da čak i to preskoči, a i trudnoća je tu.. na kraju je ispalo da već neko vrijeme stvarno nemam ni kapi. Prije sam znala pitati Lindu ide li, uvijek bi potvrdila, a sad se i sama žali da nema. Čak i kad se kupam u vrućoj vodi, ništa ne ide, baš ništa.

    A što se tiče tandema, nije da osjećam obvezu kao forumašica, niti kao članica udruge. To mi je jednostavno nešto predivno, u čemu sam i sebe htjela vidjeti, ali kako rastu moji strahovi oko toga što ću i kako ću s troje, tako rastu i strahovi po pitanju tandema...

  10. #10
    magriz avatar
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    i mene to muči

    mališa se skoro svako jutro, ili kroz noć prišteka i povuče 1-2x lijevu, pa desnu...
    kad ga pitam jel ima mlijeka, veli da ima puno, a kad pribam istisnuti, ne ide gotovo ništa...
    a on svejedno uživa

    jel to dojenje?

  11. #11
    mama courage avatar
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    Citiraj Maja prvotno napisa
    Pa za početak, ne trebaš se opće sramiti toga što ne želiš tandem, nije on obaveza. Razumijem da je osjećaj da se na ovom forumu tandem u najmanju ruku očekuje, ali nadam se da ćemo se svi skupa jednom izdići iznad toga Dakle, ako ga ne želiš, nemoj, prosto ko pasulj. S tim da imaš dovoljno vremena za odlučivati, ne moraš to danas.
    potpis.

  12. #12
    Linda avatar
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    Od petka nije tražila. Pitam je sinoć "Lili, cicaš li još?", a ona k'o iz puške "Ne!" Ne znam bih li se veselila ili tugovala, podvojena sam totalno. Ali jako mi je drago da je tako bezbolno i neprimjetno prošlo. Baš kad je bila spremna.

  13. #13
    Olivija avatar
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    Ma to je krasno! Bravo Linda!

    Gabi pravi razmake od 7-10 dana za cicom, ali onda bude prištekan dok ne utrnemo i on i ja. Ovo sad pamtim neki 5. ili 6. datum (tj. događaj) zadnjeg cicanja

  14. #14
    ninocka76 avatar
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  15. #15
    Candy avatar
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    Ja se pitam radim li dobro što puštam posve Niki na volju odluku o našem dojilačkom stažu. Naime, ja sam bila uvjerena da smo prestali, sam je prestao, i nije cicao skoro tri tjedna i onda je opet zatražio, i ja od šoka nisam znala što ću, dala sam mu i sad i dalje cicamo, ima tome mjesec dana. Mlijeka imam u slanim kapima,kad ga pitam ima li mlijeka, kaže ne, ali i dalje voli cicati. Doji rijetko, ali skoro svaki dan. I nama to traje od ljeta da bi sam ne dojio par dana, pa par dana bi... Sad doji... Je li ovo dojenje, i da li da puštam dok se skroz ne izgušta ili? Možda sljedeći put kad potraje tjednima mama treba reći, ne dojimo više, mlijeka nema (kad sam slabić)

  16. #16
    Candy avatar
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    Nadovezat ću se sama na sebe , mlijeka ima stidljivo malo više, ali i dalje je slankasto. Zanima me da li ovakvo dojenje ima ikakvu funkciju na imunitet i zdravlje djeteta (par slanih kapi mlijeka)? Ako mi netko može odgovoriti, bila bih zahvalna.

  17. #17
    Osoblje foruma leonisa avatar
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    the levels of lactose and potassium in your milk decrease and the sodium, chloride, fat and total protein increases

  18. #18
    Osoblje foruma leonisa avatar
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    divan tekst

    Weaning as a Natural Process
    Brylin Highton
    Dunedin, New Zealand
    From: LEAVEN, Vol. 36 No. 6, December 2000-January 2001, p. 112-114

    The term weaning is derived from the Anglo-Saxon word wenian, which means "to become accustomed to something different." The Concise Oxford Dictionary says to wean is "to teach the sucking child to feed otherwise than from the breast." Weaning is often seen as the end of something; however, it is more appropriately viewed as a beginning. We misuse the word wean in the context of stopping other activities or habits; weaning is not the cessation of breastfeeding but rather the addition of new foods.

    History

    The influence of increasing scientific and medical knowledge and an ambivalence about breastfeeding in Western society, combined with an ignorance of normal mammary function, has led to a disregard of young children's sucking needs and an eagerness to substitute artificial foods and feeding methods for breastfeeding. However, long before the modern era some women chose not to accept their biological role as nursing mothers and societies failed to provide adequate support for nursing mothers.

    In ancient times both Eastern and Western women breastfed much longer than Western women do today. The Romans believed complete weaning should not occur until a child turned three (Galen) or had all his baby teeth(Soranus).

    In medieval Europe, complete weaning typically occurred between one and three years of age. Yet many noble and wealthy women hired wet nurses, as they believed breastfeeding would make them look old, prevent them from dressing fashionably, and make their breasts sag. Nursing became the lot of the poor, as poor women had no choice but to nurse their own children. Weaning was very simple for most wealthy women and calamitous for their children, who were simply taken from the wet nurse's home and returned to their family of birth.

    In the sixteenth century supplemental foods were generally introduced between seven and nine months. Though medical writers recommended breastfeeding for two years, most German and Italian mothers had stopped by the thirteenth month and most English mothers by the eighteenth month. By the eighteenth century mixed feeding was promoted at two to four months and the median age of complete weaning in the English educated classes was seven to eight months. At this time in history various feeding devices and artificial foods for babies were being developed. Artificial feeding became common first in Scandinavia and northern Europe and then in the American colonies, despite an awareness that artificially fed babies were more likely to die.

    Physiology of Weaning

    The physiological process of weaning is complex and involves microbiological, biochemical, nutritional, immunological, and psychological adjustments for both mother and child.

    During the weaning process the composition of human milk adjusts to meet the needs of the growing child so that, although the volume is decreasing, an appropriate level of nutrients remains present and immunological protection is not compromised.

    Studies on the composition of human milk have shown that when milk consumption falls below 400 milliliters per day, the level of sodium and other inorganic salts increases as the volume decreases. The fat, protein, and iron also increase while the calcium levels stay the same and zinc levels decrease. Milk produced during weaning also shows a decreasing concentration of lactose; fats increasingly replace lactose as the main source of calories. The calories provided by proteins remain stable. The concentration of immunological components is maintained during gradual weaning with a slight rise in the level of IgA, secretary IgA, lysozymes, and lactoferrin. Following abrupt weaning, however, the concentration of these components rises dramatically. Lipases (enzymes essential for the digestion of fats) decrease in activity during weaning although bile salt stimulated lipase does so only slowly.


    The mother may experience several physical changes after weaning. Most women find a need to adjust their diets to eliminate the calories that were supporting milk production to avoid gaining weight. Their breasts may sag at first and be soft but generally return to pre-pregnancy size after several menstrual cycles. If the mother was experiencing lactational amenorrhea, the reduction in nursing frequency will stimulate the return of fertility. The hormonal state of the mother will also change with the cessation of breastfeeding as prolactin returns to pre-reproductive levels.

    When weaning is rapid the breasts may become uncomfortably full; a mother's body responds to signals to reduce milk production only gradually. The mammary glands of other mammals involute (return to pre-pregnancy size) rapidly. Humans, however, generally continue to produce milk for about 45 days after complete weaning with some women experiencing milk secretion for several months or more. It is believed that a psychological nursing stimulus contributes to this effect in humans since they continue to have contact with their young long after weaning.

    Abrupt weaning may leave a baby feeling as though his mother has withdrawn her love as well as her breast. The sudden shift in hormones may cause the mother to become depressed, especially if the mother is ambivalent about weaning or if she is prone to depression. The mother may also risk developing mastitis or a breast abscess. If abrupt weaning is essential for any reason, measures should be taken to relieve any breast engorgement and to keep a careful watch for complications.

    Although recent research has shown that the protective effects of breastfeeding last well into childhood, a weaned child is more susceptible to infections, not only because of the introduction of other foods but also because of the loss of the anti-infective and protective properties of human milk. In Third World countries, morbidity and mortality in infancy rise sharply at the time of weaning from human milk due to the rapid onset of infections and diarrhea-related malnutrition.

    When to Wean

    Ruth Lawrence has said, "If one were to determine the appropriate time for weaning to take place it would be based on nutritional needs and developmental goals. Observations among other mammals suggest that achievement of a degree of maturity that allows the young animal to forage for food is a trigger for initiating weaning by the mother."

    According to anthropologist Katherine Dettwyler, "Many primates wean their offspring when they are erupting their first permanent molars. First permanent molar eruption occurs around five-and-a-half to six years in modern humans. It is interesting to note that achievement of adult immune competence in humans also occurs at approximately six years of age suggesting that throughout our recent evolutionary past the active immunities provided by breast milk were normally available to the child until about this age."

    It is theorized that the six year nursing practice was probably modified by the use of fire in cooking 0.5-1 million years ago followed by the domestication and processing of grains about ten thousand years ago, providing alternatives to uncooked vegetation and raw animal foods.

    Around the middle of the first year most babies show signs of wanting something other than human milk. This begins the weaning process, but the length of time before a baby is fully weaned varies from baby to baby. Some are enthusiastic and others are not. Mothers can be reminded that human milk is the most important food for their babies during the first year.

    Developmentally the baby is ready to chew solids at about six months even though not all of his teeth have erupted. The sucking pads in the baby's cheeks begin to disappear at the end of the first year. The rooting reflex has also been lost by this time. The development of the chew-swallow reflex is necessary for successful introduction of solids. Some think this reflex is a learned behavior encouraged by oral stimulation after the baby reaches a certain level of neurological development. If supplemental food is introduced too early, the baby will push his tongue against a spoon to eliminate solids from his mouth.

    The introduction of new foods is important both socially and nutritionally. Additional protein becomes necessary toward the end of the first year and the infant also needs bulk or roughage about this time. Eating solids and learning to drink from a cup are important social achievements. This does not mean, however, that breastfeeding should end, only that the baby's diet now includes solid foods and other liquids.

    For the human baby nursing supplies comfort and emotional support. The need for comfort sucking or non-nutritive suckling may last for several years as witnessed by the use of bottles, dummies, and thumbs by many toddlers and preschoolers. The optimal approach to weaning matches the needs and requirements of a given child with the functions and capacities of his body.

    Sometimes mothers are ready to wean before their babies are ready. Vague fears and irrational biases often promote early weaning from the breast. The family's needs may conflict with the baby's needs. The intensity of the breastfeeding relationship may cause others in the family to feel ignored. Western society teaches that the only way a baby can gain independence is by being weaned and the only way mothers can "get their lives back" is by weaning their babies.

    Early in the twentieth century various books emphasized control over the baby. Rossiter (1908) said, "Picking up or nursing a crying infant will cultivate self indulgence and a lack of self control." Mothers were instructed not to give their babies the breast or even pick them up when the babies cried at an "inappropriate" time. Brown (1923) suggested meeting an infant's needs would make him "a potential juvenile court case." This approach to child rearing still has advocates today. Such management of breastfeeding often ensures that the nursing period lasts for a very short time.

    La Leche League encourages mothers to continue to breastfeed ideally until the baby outgrows the need. Breastfeeding is a relationship between two human beings and, as in any relationship, there is give and take. THE WOMANLY ART OF BREASTFEEDING does not set rules about how long to breastfeed, but it does suggest that weaning is best done "gradually, with love" for both the mother's and baby's sake. Weaning is a personal decision made by the mother with the baby's and her own needs in mind.

    While mothers who are still nursing children at two, three, four, or more years are considered exceptional in many cultures, they are perhaps greater in number than most people realize because most remain purposefully invisible. Many women plan before their baby's birth to nurse their babies for three months, six months, or a year only to find their feelings, knowledge, or circumstances change after the baby arrives.

    Various researchers have suggested that there are windows of opportunity for weaning. Babies sometimes exhibit lagging interest in breastfeeding as a direct or indirect result of developmental events at four to five months, seven months, and at nine to twelve months. Between 13 and 18 months, researchers have found that children experience more negative emotional reactions to weaning than any other time. As they develop mobility and communication skills they also develop intense separation anxiety. The nursing attachment to their mother is very reassuring. Sudden refusal to nurse, especially when the baby is under one year, is not an indication that the infant is ready to wean but rather that he is communicating that something is wrong. Many mothers misinterpret this message and do wean completely at this time.

    Conclusion

    Throughout history, culture and society have influenced the natural process of weaning. Breastfeeding is more than just a choice of milk, and weaning is more than just ending access to human milk. Today early weaning and failure to breastfeed are mainly products of social pressure and lack of knowledge and support. The last few decades of the twentieth century are probably the only time in human history when a large number of babies have been completely weaned from the breast in the first three to six months of life. Mothering through breastfeeding encourages a mother to understand and satisfy her baby's needs. Ideally, as the breastfeeding relationship develops she becomes sensitive to her baby's cues and is guided by them, considering both of their feelings and preferences before initiating weaning.
    http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/LV/L...Jan01p112.html

  19. #19
    Anci avatar
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    Breastfeeding is more than just a choice of milk, and weaning is more than just ending access to human milk.


  20. #20
    Candy avatar
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    O, hvala, uopće nisam znala za taj izraz, eto, vidjet ćemo koliko će naš weaning potrajati, nek se N. zabavlja sa svojim slanim kapljicama.

  21. #21

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    Moja K. (2 g i 8 mj.) više i ne taži cicu već "dvije kapljice". Dva puta povuče sa svake i to je to. Međutim, nije to bila njena spontana odluka već sam je ja isprovocirala. Nakon što sam odlučila da je dosta i koliko god bio predivan osjećaj, istovremeno me počelo opterećivati (dojila je po nekoliko puta dnevno i to duuugo, ponekad mi se činilo puno više nego kad je bila beba, jednostavno kad god sam joj bila pri ruci, gotovo ništa drugo nije ni željela samnom raditi). Objasnila sam joj da je sada već velika i da me bole cice, pa da može samo malo, dvije kapljice. To je prihvatila i sad već dva tjedna tako - čak i ujutro kad se probudi ne kaže "cici-cici" nego "dvije kapljice". Sve očekujem, promijenit će se, počet će se "švercati", ali ne, drži se dogovora i nakon tih par sekundi, pospremi cicu, pogladi je i nasloni glavu na nju. Njoj dobro, meni lagano pao kamen sa srca, nadam se da će se sada kraj doći spontano, ovo sa "dvije kapi" me ne opterećuje i tako možemo koliko god bude trebalo.

  22. #22
    Candy avatar
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    Riječanka, jako lijepo.

  23. #23

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    Ipak je krenula lagano propitkivati kada će me prestati boljeti, pa će ona opet puuuuuno ciciti. - Pa ti si sve veća i veća, neće me prestati. - A onda kada opet budem mala beba? -Da, onda ćeš opet moći puno. - Dobro, sad ću onda dvije kapi jer sam velika cura. Onda se baci na posao, pa pita - jesu te boljele?

  24. #24

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    ..moj Luka i ja smo prošli već sve moguće i nemoguće faze, on je sad 2,5 god..bilo je razdoblja kad je bio kod bake tjedan dana i uopće nije dudao..meni se nakupilo nešto mlijeka koje je kad se vratio izdudao ali nije bio nešto posebno zainteresiran ..i tako je trajalo oko mjesec dana da smo mi sve manje dudali, a mlijeka više nije ni bilo..e onda mu se opet preokrenulo i počeo dudati ko lud, svako malo..mlijeko opet došlo i opet sve po starom ko da se ovih mjesec dana nije ni dogodilo...

    CANDY:
    ...ja vjerujem da dojenje uvijek ima svoju funkciju, u bilo kakvom obliku..činjenica je da mlijeko ide van iz nas i naravno da donosi sa sobom dozu nečeg, imuniteta, bilo čega...čim se stvara, svara sa svime, nemože se sad nešto izostaviti....ja još dan danas primjetim kad sam bolesna i kad dojim, moja starija kćer uvijek dobi od mene a Luka kojeg dojim ništa..jer antitjela koja moje tjelo proizvodi, on uvijek posiše, i time se obrani od bolesti...

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